Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, October 21 2011 Volume 14 : Number 727 In this issue: Canadians won't miss the gun registry By Adrian MacNair letter to the LFP (just sent). correctiion: Re: Saskatchewan Court of Appeal Decision:... McMaster MD's study says homicide rates not linked to gun laws Mixed reaction to scrapping long-gun registry Re: Long-Gun Registry: Victim Feels Ignored By Tory Government Good news from Ottawa for hunters and anglers Front-line RCMP officers to get new gun that fires more ... Quebec woman charged with trying to export assault rifle ... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, October 20, 2011 4:19 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Canadians won't miss the gun registry By Adrian MacNair NATIONAL POST - FULL COMMENT - OCTOBER 20, 2011 Adrian MacNair: Canadians won't miss the gun registry By Adrian MacNair Oct 20, 2011 - 10:47 AM ET http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/10/20/adrian-macnair-canadians-wont - -miss-the-gun-registry/ News that the much-hated long-gun registry bill of death might be delivered in the Commons this week has people who have historically supported the boondoggle once again sounding the alarm. But why? In its 15 years of life has the registry proved a useful tool in law enforcement? Has it apprehended criminals and prevented domestic abuse? Of course not. Certainly, the police say it's useful to have. They say when they visit a house it enables them to check what registered firearms are in the house. Which is kind a valuable piece of information, I suppose. One can never be too sure one doesn't run into an 1856 civil war musket while doing a routine domestic disturbance call. But what about all the other unregistered weapons that could be used during said domestic disturbance call? Where's the large butcher ginzu knife registry? Where's the strangulation cord registry? Where's the blunt instrument to the back of the head registry? A long-gun registry is just as impractical. Nobody who registers a long gun does so with the intention of using it to kill someone, in self defence or otherwise. Which is what makes the registry so impractical. It's one thing to be aware of automatic weapons and handguns designed to shoot and kill people, and a completely different thing to go to the trouble of documenting the prairie dog peashooter in Gull Lake, Saskatchewan, as the registry does. Of course police are going to say it's an effective law enforcement tool. If you offered them a blueprint of your house and a closed circuit television of your living room they'd probably say that's effective as well. They also argue that tasers are an effective tool, but look at where that's gotten us. The idea that a registry lowers rates of domestic violence is also specious. If a killer is going to murder his spouse with a 20-20 Dick Cheney special, he's certainly not going to hesitate to find other useful instruments of death. Failing guns, ropes or candlesticks, there's always eight fingers and opposable thumbs. Hard to register those. Let the registry die, Liberals. I know you spent a couple of billion dollars on it, but it's not as if throwing billions of dollars away on stupid ideas was unprecedented in politics. - -------------------------- TORONTO SUN - OCTOBER 20, 2011 Long-gun registry to be shot down Thursday Comments 156 BY BRYN WEESE, PARLIAMENTARY BUREAU UPDATED: THURSDAY, OCTOBER 20, 2011 11:35 AM EDT http://www.torontosun.com/2011/10/19/long-gun-registry-to-be-shot-down-thurs day OTTAWA - The feds are taking aim at the controversial long-gun registry Thursday when they are expected to table a bill to scrap it. The bill is expected to pass easily in the Conservative majority Parliament. According to Sara MacIntyre, a spokeswoman for the Prime Minister, this bill is a "priority" for the government. "It is one of our commitments. It is something we're moving forward on," MacIntyre said Wednesday. "It's a priority piece of legislation." While the order paper notice only hints at amendments to the Firearms Act, a source close to the file told QMI Agency the bill is expected to fully repeal the requirement to register long-guns. It will also re-write the Firearms Act to specify only restricted and prohibited firearms need to be registered. Also, according to the source, all long-gun registry records will be destroyed. The long-gun registry was introduced in 1995 by Jean Chretien's Liberal government and while it said the program would only cost $2 million, costs ballooned to over $1 billion. Gun control advocates and the country's chiefs of police have argued it provides valuable information to officers, and have also suggested it has lowered rates of domestic violence. Critics, though, have blasted the registry as ineffective and wasteful, and say it does not improve public safety, but rather targets law-abiding shotgun and rifle owners. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 19:07:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Sciuk Subject: letter to the LFP (just sent). Weapon of choice? (fwd) Dear Sir/Madame, When your reporter claims "the Sten Mk. II, a submachine gun with 30-round magazine ... was the weapon of choice for British troops during [wwII]" he overstates. The Sten was stamped from a single piece of metal, and was designed with a "slam-fire" action to be easily and cheaply manufactured. Inherently innaccurate, they had a tendancy to fire when one didn't necessarily want them to. As such, they were almost as dangerous to friendly troops as they were the enemy. Carried by Canadian, British and various allied troops, they were also parachuted into occupied territories for use by the partisans against occupying forces. It would be better if when reporting upon firearms and especially firearms law, that the reporter leave such detail to those who actually know and understand the subject rather than spread misinformation. Our current laws were designed by those who do not understand responsible firearm ownership, and Canadians have been made to pay a huge price for that mistake since 1995. Sincerely, Robert S. Sciuk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 12:39:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "Joe Gingrich" Subject: correctiion: Re: Saskatchewan Court of Appeal Decision:... ... 'No Right to Trial' Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 12:39:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Vladyslav Strashko Subject: Re: Saskatchewan Court of Appeal Decision: 'No Right to Trial' I agree with the court. If I had to clerk for the appeal judge, I would do the similar draft of the decision. You should stop going to court unprepared, otherwise you may cause huge legal damage for the rest of us (especially with appeal courts who are binding on lower courts in your province and have some weight for others). Remember, 1. Trial Courts is the best battle ground for facts and law. 2. Appeal court is only questi on of law and application of law. Unless you can show the judge is an idiot (doesn't understand the law, cannot apply the law properly to the facts), you will lose it. [Note: judge doesn't have to be an idiot, you just have t o show it. That's why great argument, legal authority, case law and great l ogical points are important.] PS. I can bet $20 that Supreme Court will i gnore the appeal for this decision. Vlad - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hi Vlad, I mean this not as criticism but as a unique opportunity. We need all the help we can get. Please illustrate all your points using more details, examples and sources to present it as a critique of Eduardo's legal performances rather than criticism. Some things, among others, which you may wish to include: 1. Where were Eduardo's arguments weak? How could they be improved? 2. What other legal authorities should have and/or could have been used? 3. Expand upon the weaknesses you claim existed within the applied logic? We could use some lawyers. 4. List the lawyers' names who were publicly acclaimed for their court room performances by a former judge. 5. List the lawyers' names who represented members of the Canadian firearms community and were publicly acclaimed for their court room performances by a former judge. You do have a hard act to follow. I was present at one of Eduardo's pervious Appeals court hearings which was not accepted for appeal by the Supreme Court of Canada. At that time, former Chief Justice Edward Dmytro Bayda [(September 9, 1931 - April 2, 2010) was the Chief Justice of Saskatchewan, Canada and Chief Justice of the Province's Court of Appeal] made a personal visit to listen with us. He provided a critique of Eduardo's performance which was excellent. There were several supporters from the firearms community within the court of Appeals that day who heard Judge Bayda's asscessment and can attest to my description. My bad, I got the two judges mixed up. I apologize for the error It was actually http://www.ucc.sk.ca/en/articles/201-ernest-boychuk-obit Judge Ernest Boychuk (1934-2011) He was Saskatchewan's first Ombudsman and first Chief Judge of the Provincial Court. He was Chairman of the Wage and Price Commission and the Public Utilities Review Commission where he remained until his retirement. During his retirement he served as a part-time judge of the Provincial Court. Now, please enlighten us. Yours in tyranny, Joe Gingrich White Fox Judge Ernest Boychuk (1934-2011) He was Saskatchewan's first Ombudsman and first Chief Judge of the Provincial Court. He was Chairman of the Wage and Price Commission and the Public Utilities Review Commission where he remained until his retirement. During his retirement he served as a part-time judge of the Provincial Court. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, October 20, 2011 9:52 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: McMaster MD's study says homicide rates not linked to gun laws HAMILTON SPECTATOR - OCTOBER 20, 2011 McMaster MD's study says homicide rates not linked to gun laws By Stacey Escott http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/612534--mcmaster-md-s-study-says-homicide-rates-not-linked-to-gun-laws Tougher gun laws have done nothing to lower Canada's homicide rates, according to a statistical study led by a McMaster University emergency medicine doctor. Dr. Caillin Langmann began research almost two years ago for the study that will be published in an upcoming issue of the Journal of Interpersonal Violence. "It appears that Canadian firearms legislation has had no significant beneficial association in regards to firearm homicide and spousal homicide by firearm," said Langmann. The study says the Canadian homicide rate by firearm is approximately 0.6 per 100,000 population, or about 200 deaths a year. Langmann says overall homicide numbers in Canada are low and have been getting lower. He notes a decrease since 1974 in homicides in general, and in homicides by firearm. But this isn't because of gun legislation, he says. Langmann found the decrease seems to be associated with other factors, including an increasing median age, fewer men in the 15-24 age range, unemployment, poverty, and population per police officer. Data from 1974 to 2008 was obtained from Statistics Canada. He used three pieces of major gun legislation and checked if there was an immediate effect from the legislation itself on homicide rates or a gradual effect over time: a 1977 bill that required criminal record checks; a 1991 bill that required background checks and a new classification of guns; and 1995's long-gun registry. Three methods of analysis were used and each method failed to demonstrate an association between firearm legislation and homicide between 1974 and 2008 in Canada. The data used did not include statistics on suicide because of limited space in the journal. [see suicide statistics below] Dr. Carolyn Snider is an emergency physician and an injury researcher representing the Canadian Association of Emergency Physicians in their support of gun control. She could not comment on Langmann's study as it hasn't been published yet. But she says her group will continue to oppose the repeal of the long-gun registry based on the evidence that is currently out there. "It's important to recognize that in 2008, (according to the most recent statistics) 26 per cent of homicides (in Canada) were by rifles or shotguns, and the majority of firearm-related spousal homicides were by long-guns," said Snider. Public Safety Canada reports that by 2006, costs had exceeded $1 billion for the firearms program, most specifically the long-gun registry. The federal government is introducing legislation to end the long-gun registry. Previous attempts to abolish it foundered, but this bill is expected to pass because the Conservatives have a majority. Langmann thinks it's money being wasted on something that has a very low impact on death in Canada. However, he says literature shows there are definitive benefits from women's shelters, police training, public awareness and psychiatric help. - --------------------------------------- SUICIDES BY FIREARM AND BY HANGING ALL GUN ROPE 1991 3593 1110 1034 1992 3704 1050 1151 1993 3803 1054 1234 1994 3746 975 1270 1995 3968 916 1382 1996 3937 883 1414 1997 3677 818 1409 1998 3698 818 1434 1999 4073 807 1755 2000 3605 685 1546 2001 3688 651 1509 2002 3648 633 1570 2003 3765 618 1662 2004 3613 568 1590 2005 3743 593 1682 2006 3512 586 1529 2007 3611 534 1551 Source: Statistics Canada, Canadian Vital Statistics, Death Database http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/hlth66a-eng.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, October 20, 2011 9:56 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Mixed reaction to scrapping long-gun registry THE STANDARD FREEHOLDER - OCTOBER 20, 2011 Mixed reaction to scrapping long-gun registry By Danielle VandenBrink dvandenbrink@standard-freeholder.com NEWINGTON — Newington-area resident John Gillard has been an avid hunter since he was just 11 years old. Over the years, the 64-year-old began collecting long guns and considers himself to be an experienced and responsible gun owner. So when he is forced to register a long gun with the federal government when purchasing it, Gillard says he's insulted. Often, he says he speaks with government officials during the registration process who have less experience than he does owning long guns. The Conservative government is expected to table a bill Friday to scrap the long-gun registry — 16 years after it was introduced by Jean Chrétien's Liberal government in 1995. At the time, the government said the program would only cost $2 million, but costs have since skyrocketed to more than $1 billion. Gillard applauded the federal government for its move to eliminate the registry, calling it a waste of time and taxpayer's money. "All that money they wasted, it's too bad," Gillard says, adding that the money could have been used to fund other projects. But gun control advocates have argued a national database on long guns provides information to police officers and lowers the rates of domestic violence. The registry is backed by the country's chiefs of police, including Cornwall police Chief Dan Parkinson. Parkinson says the database arms police when there's a potential risk of encountering a dangerous situation when responding to a call. "We think that it's unfortunate that they're scrapping a very worthwhile database that has been an enormous assistance to police in the past in ensuring safety," he said. But Parkinson says the city hasn't seen a homicide from a firearm "in quite some time." "It doesn't mean the threat isn't out there," he said. Citing research by the Coalition for Gun Control, Parkinson said long guns are often used in violent domestic incidents, bolstering the need for tougher gun laws. Gun owner and avid hunter Derek Leroux says he doesn't believe the registry has served any purpose. "The only thing the long-gun registry ever did was hurt the hunters or gun owners," Leroux says. "It did nothing. I would be surprised if any lives were saved by it." Leroux, who is also the president of the South Lancaster Fish and Game Club, says if the registry gets scrapped there will still be regulations in place. He says the public is often ill-informed when it comes to gun ownership, and think anyone can buy a gun off the shelf. But with licensing requirements, including the Firearms Possession and Acquisition License, and firearm safety regulations, Leroux says the necessary safeguards already exist to keep the public safe. "(The legislation has) been a long time coming," he says. "In my opinion, it was a huge waste of taxpayer dollars. It never kept the guns out of criminal's hands." - -With files from QMI Agency ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 03:53:33 -0600 From: 10x@telus.net Subject: Re: Long-Gun Registry: Victim Feels Ignored By Tory Government At , you wrote: >THE HUFFINGTON POST - OCTOBER 20, 2011 >Long-Gun Registry: Victim Feels Ignored By Tory Government That Prides >Itself On Being The Voice Of Victims >By Althia Raj - Updated: 10/20/11 11:49 AM ET Althia.Raj@huffingtonpost.com >http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/10/20/long-gun-registry-victim-conservative-government-scrapping_n_1021558.html > >As the Tories prepare to introduce legislation to to scrap the long-gun >registry as early as this Thursday, a mother whose child was slain by gun >violence says the Conservatives may claim to support victims but have >consistently ignored the real victims of crime who are fighting to keep the >registry alive. Elaine Lumley's son Aidan was killed outside a bar in >Montreal in November 2005. > >The 20 year old, a top athlete at Trent University who had just made the >Ontario swim team and was training for a chance at the Olympics, was in town >for a friend's birthday party. He was grabbed and shot in the back leaving >the Vinyl Lounge, a club on de Bleury street, after his friends had an >altercation with another group of guys in the bar. "It doesn't matter how >many years go by, time moves in a certain way when your child gets killed," >his mother told HuffPost Wednesday. "Aidan was studying physics and he was >an A student. He's my only child," Lumley said. "We had just gotten out of >the teenage years, where he was becoming human again, and he was so funny. >And he was 6'2" and he was blonde and so beautiful and he was always >smiling." Aidan engaged in what is now becoming a high risk activity. 1)Going to a bar where alcohol is served and 2)staying after midnight and 3) getting into an altercation. It seems that the majority of shootings at bars occur after midnight and seem to be "settling a score". There is a solution here - keep going to the bars after midnight and run the risk of getting beaten, stabbed, or shot or avoid places where stuff like this happens. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, October 21, 2011 8:14 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Good news from Ottawa for hunters and anglers MERRITT NEWS - OCTOBER 21, 2011 Good news from Ottawa for hunters and anglers By Othmar Vohringer, The Outdoorsman http://www.merrittnews.net/article/20111019/MERRITT0304/111019797/-1/MERRITT/good-news-from-ottawa-for-hunters-and-anglers When I think of Parliament Hill, I think of politicians shouting and pointing fingers at each other like small children. Imagine my surprise when I learned that an all-party team, made up of such opposites as a former Liberal cabinet minister, a Conservative house leader, assorted NDPers, and the Minister of State for Foreign Affairs, happily sitting together in a congenial atmosphere being in agreement on a single subject. Perhaps it is not so surprising that this group of people get along so well. They are all members of the Parliamentary Outdoors Caucus. I guess the common love of fishing, hunting, and the great Canadian outdoors can overcome political divides and agendas. The point of this five-year-old Outdoors Caucasus is to bring like-minded MPs together for the benefit of Canada's hunters, anglers, trappers, and sport shooters. The Canadian Outdoor Caucus, with an estimated 81 MPs and Senators, is the largest all-party group in North America of this type. The goal of this group is to protect hunting, fishing, trapping, and the shooting sport as a unique Canadian heritage. Outdoors Caucus co-chair, NDP MP Bruce Hyer, said the caucus is trying to address the increasingly large but little known "nature deficit disorder," which many Canadians suffer from today. "Hunting, fishing, and trapping are a big part of the Canadian roots. It's a huge part of our history, and even today, it's an important element in many people's lives. It's not just recreation. I think a lot of people don't understand it isn't just getting food and it isn't just fun-it's a connection to the land in a very different way than from people who interpret the outdoors through television and who think meat comes in Styrofoam." Conservative MP Garry Breitkreuz, caucus co-chair, said heritage activities are healthy pursuits that can help keep young people from getting "involved in other unsavoury activities." The all-party outdoors caucus, founded by Garry Breitkreuz in 2006, is often visited by industry members, such as Ducks Unlimited, Fishing Alliance of Canada, Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters, plus many others. The groups share the goals of the caucus and provide input. One of the goals of this caucus is to provide a much needed counter balance to the anti-hunting, anti-fishing, and anti-shooting culture. The outdoor caucus was responsible for creating legislation, such as the anti hunter harassment laws and Bill C-261; the National Hunting, Trapping, and Fishing Heritage Day in Canada. As would be expected, the animal rights groups are not very pleased about the existence of the Parliamentary Outdoors Caucus; they would much rather prefer if hunting and fishing did not have a "government sponsored lobby." I, on the other hand, appreciate that the government realized that our unique outdoor sports and their economic contributions are the foundations upon which Canada was built and are giving us their support and protection through the Parliamentary Outdoors Caucus. OthmarV@shaw.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, October 21, 2011 8:55 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Front-line RCMP officers to get new gun that fires more ... ... bullets with less punch WINNIPEG FREE PRESS - OCTOBER 21, 2011 Front-line RCMP officers to get new gun that fires more bullets with less punch By: The Canadian Press Last Modified: 10/21/2011 8:50 AM http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/front-line-rcmp-officers-to-get-new-gun-that-fires-more-bullets-with-less-punch-132307438.html EDMONTON - The RCMP is beefing up the firepower of officers on patrol with a weapon now used by the army and police tactical squads. Starting next year, the C8 patrol carbine - a cut-down version of a rifle similar to an M-16 - will be made available to front-line RCMP members. In an Oct. 19 memo obtained by CHED radio in Edmonton, departing Commissioner William Elliot tells Mounties the C8 will fill a gap in RCMP firearms capabilities. He says based on tests, the carbine is a more accurate weapon that fires more bullets with less penetrating power, thus reducing the chance of someone else being hit. Elliot says the C8 won't replace shotguns and other weapons the RCMP uses, but it will be made available to Mounties. The need for the RCMP to have access to better weapons was highlighted in a report into the shooting deaths of four Mounties outside Mayerthorpe, Alta., on March 3, 2005. (CHED, The Canadian Press) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, October 21, 2011 9:01 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Quebec woman charged with trying to export assault rifle ... ... parts to Lebanon NATIONAL POST - OCTOBER 21, 2011 Quebec woman charged with trying to export assault rifle parts to Lebanon By Stewart Bell and Graeme Hamilton http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/10/21/quebec-woman-charged-with-trying-to-export-assault-rifle-parts-to-lebanon/ MONTREAL-Police have charged a Quebec woman with attempting to export AR-15 assault rifle parts to Lebanon in contravention of a United Nations arms embargo. Mouna Diab, 26, pleaded not guilty in a Montreal courtroom on Thursday to a single count of violating sanctions imposed on weapons shipments to Lebanon. She was arrested at Montreal's Trudeau airport on May 19 as she was attempting to fly to Lebanon, the RCMP said. Gun parts were allegedly found in her luggage. Together with other parts she had already allegedly shipped, the components could have been assembled into working firearms, police said following the court hearing. "If you put all the pieces together you could build or make two weapons with it," said Cpl. Luc Thibault, a spokesman at the RCMP's "C" Division in Montreal. Ms. Diab was active in a Quebec youth organization that complained that Canadian Muslims were stereotyped as terrorists, and that the media portrayed Islam as a violent religion. She was quoted in the Montreal newspaper Le Devoir in 2007 saying she understood why some Lebanese sympathized with the extremist group Hezbollah. "So you identify with Hezbollah, it's normal," she said. Reached by phone, Ms. Diab referred questions to her lawyer, Richard Prihoda. He said he was waiting to see the police evidence. "She's finding the whole ordeal very difficult," he said. At the bungalow where Ms. Diab lives in the suburb of Laval, friends and family members declined to talk about the case. Ms. Diab has been ordered to return to court on Nov. 10. She is the only person charged so far in relation to the alleged scheme. The investigation began eight months ago and is being conducted by the Integrated National Security Enforcement Team in Montreal, a unit made up of RCMP, Quebec police and Montreal police officers. "This investigation launched in February 2011," Cpl. Thibault said. "It targeted a Canadian citizen of Lebanese origin who exported parts of assault weapons, which they call an AR-15." The AR-15 is a semi-automatic assault rifle that the U.S. military calls an M16. It is a restricted firearm in Canada. Whether Ms. Diab was licensed to posses such a weapon remains unclear. "Any criminal act that poses a potential threat to national security is dealt with very seriously by all law enforcement agencies including our national security enforcement team," said Cpl. Thibault. Criminal charges against alleged violators of UN sanctions are rare but not unprecedented in Canada. Last year, Mahmoud Yadegari of Toronto was sentenced to three years for attempting to ship nuclear-related items to Iran despite a UN embargo. The Lebanon sanctions were enacted by the UN Security Council in August 2006 after the armed Islamist group Hezbollah ambushed an Israeli military patrol, triggering a month-long conflict that left hundreds dead in both countries. The resolution calls for Hezbollah to be disarmed and disbanded, and to that end orders member nations to halt all transfers of arms, ammunition and "spare parts" to Lebanon, except with the approval of the Lebanese government. Canada adopted the sanctions in 2007. Ms. Diab is accused of violating Section 3 of the Canadian Regulations Implementing the United Nations Resolution on Lebanon, which reads: "No person in Canada and no Canadian outside Canada shall knowingly export, sell, supply or ship, directly or indirectly, arms and related material, wherever situated, to any person in Lebanon." The charges against Ms. Diab do not specify the intended recipient of the gun parts, and police would not elaborate. Nor is it apparent why anyone would take such a risk, since Lebanon is already awash with weapons. Iran and Syria have been steadily shipping arms to Hezbollah, which is openly hostile to the West. "I remain deeply concerned by the widespread proliferation of weapons in Lebanon," UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said in a report to the Security Council last November. Canada calls Hezbollah "one of the most technically capable terrorist groups in the world." Providing support to Hezbollah was outlawed by Ottawa under the Anti-Terrorism Act in 2002. Ms. Diab has not been charged with any terrorism offences. National Post ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #727 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)