Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, November 24 2011 Volume 14 : Number 800 In this issue: HILL TIMES ONLINE: Bill to eliminate long-gun registry will ... 40% of the world's homicides take place in Latin America Buying a handgun from the US It's not the first time and it won't be the last A wildlife biologist's continued musings about urban deer issues Long-gun registry not worth the price Canadians pay Gun Registration: The statistics speak for themselves ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, November 24, 2011 9:15 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: HILL TIMES ONLINE: Bill to eliminate long-gun registry will ... ... also make records of rifle and shotgun sales or transfers no longer mandatory by Tim Naumetz THE HILL TIMES ONLINE - NOVEMBER 24, 2011 Bill to eliminate long-gun registry will also make records of rifle and shotgun sales or transfers no longer mandatory by Tim Naumetz Registrar of Firearms must not 'retain any record' of inquiries into licence confirmation under Bill C-19, even though the law requires that sellers ensure buyers have valid gun ownership licenses. This could prevent anyone from being prosecuted under the Firearms Act. 'It's crazy,' says NDP MP Joe Comartin. http://www.hilltimes.com/news/legislation/2011/11/23/bill-to-eliminate-long-gun-registry-will-also-make-records-of-rifle-and/28898 PARLIAMENT HILL-Nearly two million rifles and shotguns will be sold or transferred with no public record of the transactions at all in just the first two years of the Conservative government's new long-gun regime, according to RCMP documents and statements from Public Safety Minister Vic Toews' office. Furthermore, a little-noticed clause in Bill C-19, the controversial legislation that would dismantle the registry sometime early next year and destroy its existing records on 7.8 million firearms, would allow the sale or transfer of rifles and shotguns with no requirement on the seller to confirm the buyer has a valid gun licence. And, if the gun seller takes what is set down only as an option in the new law to check first with the federal Registrar of Firearms, the Registrar is compelled to destroy any record of the request for confirmation of a valid licence, Bill C-19 says. "The reason the registrar must destroy any record of the request is that we are not trying to create a back door registry. We are trying to make it easy for individual sellers to verify that the prospective buyer is an eligible buyer," Michael Patton, Mr. Toews' director of communications, told The Hill Times in an email response to questions. Mr. Patton-who refused to acknowledge in a series of email exchanges with The Hill Times that Bill C-19 will amend the Firearms Act in a way that effectively removes a requirement that currently ensures gun buyers hold valid licences when they acquire rifles and shotguns-confirmed there will be no record of rifles and shotguns being bought and sold, and who buys and sells them, once the bill becomes law. "Following the implementation of Bill C-19, the requirement to register and obtain a registration certificate for newly acquired non-restricted firearms (i.e., long-guns) will be lifted," Mr. Patton said in an email. "As a result, individuals and businesses who are a party to the sale/transfer of a long-gun will no longer be required to report the acquisition to the Registrar of Firearms," he said. "Gun owners will still be required to undergo a background check, pass a firearms safety training course, and possess a valid firearms licence before being able to acquire and possess firearms." Opposition MPs, however, said the new legislation eliminates a reporting stage in gun transactions that guarantees the buyer has a valid acquisition licence. The RCMP, which maintains the registry and allows access to police forces across the country, published records showing 1.8 million firearms were sold, or transferred, to licensed gun owners from January, 2009, to the end of last September. Bill C-19 maintains two conditions that must be met for the sale of a long gun-that the buyer holds a valid acquisition licence and the seller has no reason to believe the buyer does not have a valid licence-but it adds new and controversial clauses that eliminate the existing check on whether the gun buyers are authorized to obtain firearms. The current Firearms Act requires the sellers to report the gun transfers to the Registrar of Firearms, who has access to the RCMP data base containing the names of all licensed gun owners and acquisition licences in Canada. But C-19 replaces the requirement to report the transaction to the Registrar of Firearms with a clause saying the gun seller "may request" the registrar to confirm the prospective buyer holds a valid licence. The next clause-as with similar clauses allowing destruction of the registry records despite record protection provisions under the Privacy Act, the Access to Information Act and the Library and Archives of Canada Act-compels the registrar to destroy any record of the request for information about the gun buyer. The clause states "neither the registrar or his or her delegate nor a designated person shall retain any record" of the request for licence confirmation. "It's crazy," said NDP MP Joe Comartin (Windsor-Tecumseh, Ont.), NDP House Leader in the Commons who handled the gun-registry file in earlier Parliaments as the NDP justice critic. He said destruction of those records would eliminate evidence should someone selling a rifle or shotgun ignore confirmation from the registrar that the buyer had no valid licence, and go ahead with the sale anyway. Shotgun and rifle prices easily run over $1,000, depending on make, model and styling. "It would prevent the transferor (seller) from ever being charged," Mr. Comartin told The Hill Times. "What if they got a negative, and went ahead and did the transfer anyway?" PAGE 2: http://www.hilltimes.com/news/legislation/2011/11/23/bill-to-eliminate-long-gun-registry-will-also-make-records-of-rifle-and/28898?page_requested=2 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, November 24, 2011 9:18 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: 40% of the world's homicides take place in Latin America EDMONTON JOURNAL - NOVEMBER 24, 2011 Weapons-trafficking hikes Latin America deaths AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE NOVEMBER 24, 2011 http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Weapons+trafficking+hikes+Latin+America+deaths/5759267/story.html Illegal weapons trafficking has turned Latin America into a region of bloodletting in which over 40 per cent of the world's homicides take place, experts warned Wednesday. "Forty-two per cent of homicides with a firearm that happen worldwide take place in Latin America, though only 10 per cent of the world's population lives here," said Nobel laureate and former president Oscar Arias, citing UN data, at a conference of experts. Although weapons such as revolvers, pistols and rifles for the most part are manufactured and sold legally, they often end up in the hands of organized crime, terrorists and gangs, the experts said. "Most weapons start out legal, made by a registered company that pays taxes, and often contributes to political campaigns," said Costa Rican Foreign Minister Enrique Castillo. Mexican President Felipe Calderon has said more than 100,000 firearms seized in his country came from legal commercial outlets in the United States. "The total lack of, or inadequacy of, controls on their movement that lets them end up in the hands of cartels, mercenaries or those who prop up dictatorships," said Castillo. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 08:20:26 -0800 From: Todd Birch Subject: Buying a handgun from the US There are several dealers who will happily import a handgun for you from the US - for a fee, of course. Check out CATF and Canadian GunNutz and give them a call. Some import regularly and others will do it on a special order. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:47:07 -0800 From: Len Miller Subject: It's not the first time and it won't be the last Trouble is: our seniors are dangerous to the new kids we REMEMBER . . JE ME SOUVIENS . . SINCE WHEN IS IT OK FOR THEM to remember and not us?? ( When I was stationed at RCAF Stn Uplands (CEPE) saw the RL 201 fly over the hanger line ) Len sez: It's NOT the first time a Canadian Prime Minister betrayed his country . you . . . US pressure cowed our 'criminal lawyer' into destroying the finest aircraft our CANADIAN engineers built . . the AVRO ARROW . . Our FIRST commercial jetliner, as well, the Comet went into darkness for the same reason. Yes, our cowardly prime ministers attacked citizens . again and again . . Turdeau: in front of the Seaforth Armouries on Burrrard Vancouver smacked a kid who was heckling him Cretin: ( the street fighter ) ATTACKED AND CHOKED OUT a citizen in Hull kewbeck knocking out his teeth then exclaiming to the disinterested cameras . . " What did I did??" and got away with it . . I am not making any of this up . . thanks MEDIA . . how third world . . how canadian . . Harper, pledging allegiance to Israel in his FIRST TV speech . . then saying, a few days later, THOSE THINGS I COULD NOT DO WHEN I WAS A MINORITY, I MAY NOT DO, NOW THAT I AM A MAJORITY which was his promise to several hundred thousand lawful gun owners to do away with the entire C-68 a three billion dollar scam . . thereby BETRAYING THEM . . lying IS in the deception ain't it? YOU SEE . . he never signalled HIS intention to pledge allegiance to a turbulent foreign country, and then immediately betray his own citizen gun owners . . . . Fooled . . weren't you? Which is why, today, you are treated like a pack of dogs when you try to fly from one Canadian city . to another Canadian city on a Canadian airline, but are 'treated like a pack of dogs' by CATSA Nazis . . And from whence came these orders?? from ( ? ) or the USA . . ?? From the USA of course, THEY who bombed their own buildings to create a SECOND PEARL HARBOR don'tcha know . .??? Fooled . . weren't you? see below for other betrayals . Deifenbaker destroying the CF 105 Search Showing results for Diefenbaker destroying the CF 105 Search instead for Deifenbaker destroying the CF 105 Search Results Avro Canada CF-105 Arrow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_CF-105_Arrow The Avro Canada CF-105 Arrow was a delta-winged interceptor aircraft, designed ... that could engage and destroy these bombers before they reached their targets. ..... Diefenbaker, from the Canadian west, had campaigned on a platform of ... The Avro CF-105 Arrow www.vectorsite.net/avarrow.html This document provides a history and description of the CF-105 Arrow. ... It seemed crucial to have a weapon that could intercept and destroy these .... The Diefenbakergovernment bought on to the BOMARC, while tentatively hanging on to ... Avro Arrow www.histori.ca/minutes/minute.do?id=102201 Feb 2001 - 1 min Canada's greatest aeronautical achievement was the CF-105 jet fighter, and the ... the Arrow was designed ... More videos for Diefenbaker destroying the CF 105 » The Avro Arrow members.shaw.ca/b.bogdan/Arrow/avro_arrow.htm Avro's latest success story is the CF-100 "Canuck," a long-range, all- weather jet designed to .... In 1957 Prime Minister John Diefenbaker agreed to join the United States in an ... The Americans were planning to use the Bomarc to destroy bombers that their ..... National Defence Historical Aircraft: Avro CF-105 Arrow Mk . 1 ... CF-105, the Arrow Program novaonline.nvcc.edu/eli/evans/his135/Events/.../Arrow59.html How did the United States pressure Canada to cancel the CF-105? .... how did they pressure to create CATSA to treat you like dogs?? In the election of 1957, the Conservative Party under John Diefenbaker came .... started to destroy all documents, tooling, and aircraft associated with the CF-105 program. ... • Canadian History for Dummies - books.google.ca/books?isbn=0470676779...Will Ferguson - 2009 - History - - 544 pages Needless to say, Diefenbaker's daft scheme never did get implemented, ... The CF-105 Arrow was a magnificent craft designed to intercept Soviet bombers ... of the Arrow were cut up and scrapped, and the pre-production models destroyed. ... What did you expect ? ? ? . . after all he WAS a lawyer . . See Luke 11 46 and 52 . . Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose - huh? From Len in Vancouver who ain't fooled one bit . . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, November 24, 2011 1:35 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: A wildlife biologist's continued musings about urban deer issues KEREMEOS REVIEW - NOVEMBER 23, 2011 Part two: A wildlife biologist's continued musings about urban deer issues http://www.bclocalnews.com/news/134411853.html Options: Based on this past wildlife management experience options for managing urban deer populations are very limited, both technically and politically. It's difficult to foresee a long-term resolution of the conflict. People want an urban deer population that is tolerable; in balance with a public consensus to have some around, but not so many that conflict is intolerable. To meet that objective over the long-term a sustainable program will be required. How do we decrease the rate of new deer entering the urban deer population while increasing the rate of excess deer being removed from the population? Musing on the urban deer conflict, here are a couple options that occur to a wildlife biologist. Deer are inherently fearful of dogs. A dog confined to a landowner's property, either by rigorous training or by an 'invisible fence,' could stand guard to keep deer away from a specific property. Trained sheep-herding dogs, such as border collies, under control of a professional dog handler, could restore aversion of specific urban neighborhoods. However, dogs could not be allowed to roam freely. Dogs chasing wildlife on Crown lands are in violation of law and can be destroyed. An 'invisible fence' consists of a wire buried underground that activates an escalating shock collar as the dog approaches the wire. In comparison to management methods dismissed above, it is possible that energy conducting dart guns - 'stun guns' - might be a safer alternative in urban areas. There is a diversity of stun gun brands. A Taser stun gun is purportedly safe for humans. Unlike drug filled darts, Taser darts can never be lost - they remain attached by a wire to the gun. There would be little risk to public safety from a lost Taser dart. By vehicle, or on foot, after sunset deer can be approached very closely, perhaps as close as a couple meters or so, easily within range of a trained shooter using night-vision goggles and a Taser stun gun. It is likely a stun gun with the energy level used by police, would effectively stun a deer. Options are several once a deer has been immobilized by Taser, hobbled and blindfolded: 1. Safe and humane killing (perhaps a bolt gun); or, 2. Package for transport elsewhere (to an abattoir, vet clinic, or remote release site in the wild); or, 3. Made infertile by chemical or surgical sterilization; or, 4. Collared for future tracking then released As others have suggested, deer transported to a certified abattoir for butchering could produce high quality venison as a commercial product (that income thus defraying costs of the program), or, gifted to food banks to feed needy people. In contrast to deer captured using drug-loaded darts, I believe venison following stun gun capture would be suitable for human consumption. I have no knowledge of how cost-effective Taser capture of deer would be. On the web, the cost of a laser-sited Taser stun gun suitable for night-time use appears to be less than a thousand dollars. Currently in Canada Tasers are a prohibited weapon. Each Taser sale is registered and tracked, much like a handgun.They can only be sold to law enforcement agencies. BC's Conservation Officer Service (AKA our 'Game Wardens') is a law enforcement agency. A deer capture program using stun guns after nightfall could result in relatively low public profile for curious neighborhood residents. I suspect a team of a certified shooter with one or two ranch-hands experienced with cattle could blindfold, hobble and load into a pickup truck a mule deer in about one minute. I have no knowledge of chemical sterilization of deer, but anticipate research has been done. Alternatively, surgical sterilization is straight forward. Envisioning sterile deer allowed to live out their life-span released back into the urban environment might discourage newly arriving deer from filling that vacant habitat opportunity. Without them, new deer may more quickly fill that void. Further, these released deer would be 'rehabilitated' by 'aversion training.' Tasered deer would be fully conscious and aware of being handled by people. The unpleasant experience of being captured and handled should reinstate their fear of people. Collars with light-reflective numbers would be useful to identify sterile deer, and, for monitoring their subsequent movements around the community. By increasing night-time visibility profile, light - reflective numbers could also reduce collision accidents with cars. I favor attaching a small bell to the collar, as an audible alert when deer are in the proximity. An example of a program commercially harvesting problem species is the mysid shrimp harvest on Okanagan Lake. It could also be done through status aboriginals with special rights and privileges regarding hunting. Such a hypothetical scenario of capture of urban deer by Taser might also be acceptable to people that enjoy seeing deer in urban areas, as well as people concerned about the well-being of deer, not wanting them killed. It is even possible tourist visitors would enjoy exploring a neighborhood populated by 'Santa's deer' - those sporting a Christmas bell. Such a program could be sustainable over the long term. With the birth rate thus diminished, and excess deer being removed, urban deer may ultimately reach a population density managed to a level acceptable to people. - - Bob Lincoln - ----------------- PART 1: A Wildlife biologist's musings about urban deer issues http://www.keremeosreview.com/community/133977448.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, November 24, 2011 1:41 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Long-gun registry not worth the price Canadians pay HANNA HERALD - NOVEMBER 24, 2011 Long-gun registry not worth the price Canadians pay http://www.hannaherald.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3382036 The Association of Canadian Chiefs of Police wants the government reconsider scrapping the long-gun registry. It kind of makes sense; the registry is a useful tool that the police use before responding to calls. For example, if the police had a search warrant to perform on a certain home, they might check the gun registry to find out if any of the residents at that address have any firearms. Here is the problem - the gun registry is full of inaccuracies and holes. If the registry says there are guns in that home, there is a good bet there are. But, since the registry only tracks registered weapons, there is no way of telling how many unregistered firearms could be in that home. It's not a reliable system, and the police know that. They aren't willing to bet their life one any of the information in the registry, they just like having another resource that might make them a little better prepared once they get to a call. I agree that the registry is a good idea, that it would be a valuable resource to police if it worked the way it's supposed too. Thing is, the registry doesn't work. It's great in theory, but in practice it has proved to be little more than a pain for law-abiding gun owners and a burden on tax payers. Gun registry was supposed to make us safer, and make police investigations involving firearms easier, but it didn't. Statistics suggest what we already should have known - criminals don't obey the law and don't register their guns. Of roughly 4,000 homicides committed between 2003 and 2009, about a quarter of them were committed with firearms. Of those cases where the firearm was identified, only about a quarter of them were registered. Of those registered firearms, only about half were registered to the individual who committed the homicide. That means that of 4,000 homicides, only 50 were committed by a registered gun owner. That's less than two per cent! Maybe if the long-gun registry was amended, it would make sense to keep it. If the leaks could be plugged and the holes filled in, keeping the registry as a resource for law-enforcement might be justifiable. However, the way the registry works now, it doesn't make sense to keep it. It's not reliable and it costs way too much to justify its usefulness. The federal government has already wasted about $2 billion on a system that doesn't work. I think it's time the long-gun registry went bye-bye. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, November 24, 2011 3:30 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Gun Registration: The statistics speak for themselves by Gary Mauser and John Lott NATIONAL FIREARMS ASSOCIATION - MONDAY, NOVEMBER 21, 2011 Unpublished Lott-Mauser Op-Ed Piece http://www.nfa.ca/news/unpublished-lott-mauser-letter Despite spending a whopping $2.7 billion on creating and running a long gun registry, Canadians still have not reaped any benefits. Even though the registry started registering long guns in 1998, it has yet to solve one single murder. Instead it has been an enormous waste of police officers' time, diverting their efforts from patrolling Canadian streets and doing traditional policing activities. As parliament debates whether to eliminate the long gun registry, safety should be the real concern. Control advocates have long claimed that registration was a safety issue, and the reasoning was straightforward: If a gun had been left at a crime scene and it was registered to the person who committed the crime, the registry would link the crime gun back to the criminal. Nice logic, but reality does not work that way. Crime guns are very rarely left at the crime scene, and when they are left at the scene criminals are not stupid enough to register their guns. Even in the few cases where crime guns are left at the scene it is usually because criminals have either been seriously injured or killed, so these crimes will be solved even without registration. The statistics speak for themselves. During the seven years from 2003 to 2009, there were 4,257 homicides, 1,314 of those were committed with firearms. Data provided this last week by the Library of Parliament reveals that in less than a third of the homicides with firearms was the weapon identified (422), and most of those -- 308 -- were not registered. Of the 114 that were registered, 52 were registered to someone other than the person accused of the homicide. In just 62 cases -- that is only 4.7 percent of all firearm homicides -- was the gun registered to the accused, some of those are obviously innocent. As most homicides are not committed with a gun in Canada, the 62 cases correspond to only about 1 percent of all homicides. To repeat, during these seven years there are only 62 cases — 9 a year — where it is conceivable that registration made a difference. But apparently, the registry was not important even in those cases. As the RCMP and the Chiefs of Police have not yet provided a single example that tracing was more than peripheral importance in solving even a single case. The problem isn't just with the long gun registry. This data covers all guns, including handguns. There is no evidence that since the handgun registry was started in 1934 that it has been important in solving a single homicide. There is no evidence that registration reduced homicides. Research published this year by McMaster University Dr. Caillin Langmann in the Journal of Interpersonal Violence confirmed what academic studies have found: "This study failed to demonstrate a beneficial association between legislation and firearm homicide rates between 1974 and 2008." There is not a single refereed academic study by criminologists or economists that has found a significant benefit from the gun laws. A new Angus Reid poll indicates that shows that this is something that Canadians already understand, with only 13 percent believing that the registry has been successful. The problem isn’t just that the $2.7 billion spent on registration over 17 years has produced no arrests, it is that the money could have been used to put more police on the street or pay for more health care or cut taxes. A $160 million a year pays for a lot of police or doctors or teachers. Take police. Assuming each officer is paid $70,000 per year, that pays for almost 2,300 officers. Academic research by one of us indicates that adding that many street officers would reduce violent crimes in Canada by about 1,800. Registration isn’t getting Canadians any of this. The costs of running the registry aren't just the $2.7 billion, since that excludes enforcement costs and individual compliance costs. 2 million times last year the first step that police in Canada do in an investigation is to see if a person is a licensed gun owner. But with just nine possible cases a year where Canada's 6.4 million registered gun owners might be involved in a firearm homicide the return seems as close to zero as possible. It is also claimed that registration protects police officer safety, but homicides against Canadian police officers is actually up 20 percent since the long gun registry started compared to the rate during the previous decade. And more importantly the real bottom line is just one police officer has been identified as being killed by someone with a registered long gun. And it was registered to someone else, so it couldn’t have helped identify the murderer. Last Sunday, Gatineau MP Francoise Boivin on CTV's Question Period worried that scrapping the long-gun registry would be a $2 billion waste, "a $2 billion bonfire." Unfortunately, that money is already wasted. The problem is that the registry costs keep growing. It is running about $100 million a year to operate. That money hasn't been wasted yet, and scrapping the registry will let the money be spent on things that will actually do some good. *Gary Mauser is professor emeritus at Simon Fraser University and John Lott is the author of More Guns, Less Crime (University of Chicago Press, third edition, 2010). ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #800 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)