Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, December 9 2011 Volume 14 : Number 829 In this issue: Re: Starter pistols no toy OMA shredding Ron Charach's diploma Re: Conservatives' Commitment Re: Dutch General on TED talks- V14 #827 B.C. government designates new wildlife areas near ... I'd like to teach Coke about global warming and bad advertising RE: Dutch General on TED talks- V14 #827 EDITORIAL: Scrapping gun registry a disservice to long-gun victims Re: Scrapping gun registry a disservice to long-gun victims Letter: Don't brand us over our gun registry stance Firearms investigation turned into a standoff Judge: "Canadians don't share this view and see possession ... Mandatory Gun Sentences Not Mandatory in All Cases ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 07:35:10 -0800 (PST) From: Vladyslav Strashko Subject: Re: Starter pistols no toy Does RCMP even have the power or they just took it upon themselves? I thought they have duty to enforce the law, not to create it. _______________________ From: Rocky7 To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2011 9:05 AM Subject: Starter pistols no toy > Date: Tue, December 6, 2011 9:32 am > From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" > Subject: Starter pistols no toy > > THE BARRIE EXAMINER - DECEMBER 6, 2011 > Starter pistols no toy: News Briefs > http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3394306 > > The Royal Canadian Mounted Police have identified Zoraki starting > pistols models 914, 925 and R1 as prohibited firearms under the > Criminal Code. ............... It is utterly bizarre to me that our federal government has delegated criminal law-making powers to an unelected, national paramilitary/police force.  This is especially disturbing when the source self-identifies as a "conservative" government.  We elect MP's to make such laws as are needed and, hopefully, those which were promised to be made - or erased - - during an election. We don't elect the RCMP to do this.  The RCMP don't ask for such legislative powers.  Nor are we asked to vote on it...of course not, it's a dumb idea. I recently wrote Vic Toews and asked why .50 barrels can not be imported into Canada.  The rifles can be sold and bought, but not the barrels. Seemed irrational to me so I thought I'd ask. (I don't own a .50 and am not interested in owning one, but if someone else wants to spend $5g on the rifle, more on a scope and $5 a round to punch holes in an old car, what business is that of mine?  Or the government?) Anyway, Toews writes back and says, in effect, they are banned because the RCMP banned them.  WTF!  What kind of a democracy delegates criminal law powers to the police!  When I calm down, I'll respond to his facile, dim and, frankly, creepy position. The important debate here should be about that and not about starter pistols. R7 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:21:15 -0500 From: JULES SOBRIAN Subject: OMA shredding Ron Charach's diploma Hi All, My daughter once worked for the OMA and from what she has reported, it is unlikely that they will consider shredding Ron Charach's diploma because they are all of his mindset. A few years ago, I heard on the news of a Toronto policeman murdering his wife and as a result of his colleagues' tardiness in bringing the matter before the courts, the case was thrown out by the judge. Then there was the incident of the RCMP murdering the Polish immigrant, Dziekanski, at the Vancouver airport with no serious consequences to the officers involved. Those and several similar incidents inspired me to write about the immunity of police misconduct from the law. My second novel, "Coming Around" is now available: It starts with an example of wife abuse and why women continue to take abuse at the hands of their spouses. Pamela finds the courage to take action only when the life of her baby is threatened by the bully she has married. Thanks to a little pluck and just as much luck she manages to escape, with the thugs in uniform in hot pursuit. She makes her way to a village not very far from the city where the laid-back locals absorb her into their community, but bad luck follows. This time it takes more pluck than luck to escape. Her pregnancy brings her in contact with the village doctor, who has had a bit of bad luck himself. The story twists and turns, leading inexorably to the time when her police husband finds her. Within the story is a self-defence course for women, and the message that the only way to deal with bullies is to stop being a victim. From the book cover, showing a beautiful woman crouched in terror under the threatening shadow of her violent husband, the story keeps the reader's interest to the very last line. My book launch in on Sunday, Dec 11, at 2:00 pm in the Coronation Hall, Omemee. Price is $16 for an autographed copy. It would make a great Christmas present to a lady. Jules ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 13:10:28 -0600 From: Edward Hudson Subject: Re: Conservatives' Commitment Re: Conservatives' Commitment > Ritz said, "The Parliament of Canada alone has the supremacy to enact, > amend and repeal any piece of legislation." Too bad Mr. Harper is not as committed to protecting guns owners as he is to protecting wheat and barley farmers. Sincerely, Eduardo On 8-Dec-11, at 8:22 AM, Joe Gingrich wrote: > http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/Wheat+board+bill+proceed/5828185/story.html > > Wheat board bill to proceed > > Court rules minister broke law > > Ritz said, "The Parliament of Canada alone has the supremacy to enact, > amend and repeal any piece of legislation." > > By Bruce Johnstone, Leader-Post With Postmedia News Files December > 8, 2011 > > A defiant Agriculture Minister Gerry Ritz said his government will > push through Bill C-18 - the Marketing Freedom for Grain Farmers Act - > despite a Federal Court ruling Wednesday calling the government's plan > to dismantle the Canadian Wheat Board's single desk without a producer > plebiscite "an affront to the rule of law." > > "Let me be clear, we will never reconsider western wheat and barley > farmers' fundamental right to market their own wheat and barley," > Ritz told a media conference call Wednesday. > > "Not only is our government convinced that we have the right to change > legislation, we have the responsibility to deliver on our promises > and give farmers in Western Canada the right to market their own > grain," said Ritz, ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 13:39:12 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: Re: Dutch General on TED talks- V14 #827 Yes, an excellent talk by the Dutch General. His anecdote about his father is certainly also an argument for armed civilians with skill. His explanation of why a failed state is dangerous is true. It's is why the Islamo-fascist Al-Shabab in Somalia has been so adamant in rejecting food aid in areas that they control during the famine there. It is also a reason why the piracy in the Gulf of Aden has been so expensive to fight and has been able to expand in spite of advanced naval vessels attempting to protect the shipping off that coast of Africa. The attempt to set up functional institutions in Afghanistan is a necessary one, though I think it will prove futile without democratizing the culture and changing the status of women. Local armed militia would be more effective in keeping the Taliban out than a federal government on the verge of collapse. Once Obama withdraws all U.S. forces Afghanistan may well turn into a battleground between Iranian and Pakistani/Saudi backed Taliban forces. Neither of them want a functional Afghan government. On 8-Dec-11, at 9:00 AM, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > Date: Wed, December 7, 2011 2:06 pm > From: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca > Subject: BOUNCE cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca: Approval required: > > Why does one choose to be soldier? > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?vgHX5lAslnTc > > The first part of this is excellent. In the second part, the > general gets lost in the error typical of globalists. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, December 8, 2011 2:07 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: B.C. government designates new wildlife areas near ... ... Pemberton, Burns Lake VANCOUVER SUN DECEMBER 7, 2011 Victoria designates new wildlife areas near Pemberton, Burns Lake By Larry Pynn http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Victoria+designates+wildlife+areas+near+Pemberton+Burns+Lake/5826949/story.html The B.C. government announced Wednesday the designation of two new wildlife management areas totalling more than 1,200 hectares near Pemberton and Burns Lake. At 753 hectares, the Pemberton wetlands encompass a number of freshwater wetlands and riparian areas in the vicinity of the Upper Lillooet River and Green River. The wetlands provide habitat for salmon and other fish species, waterfowl, songbirds, moose, beaver, otter, and black bear. The other designation affected 503 hectares of river and riparian habitat along the Stellako River as a wildlife management area, said Minister of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations Steve Thomson. The area is near Fraser Lake. It includes two properties owned by The Nature Trust of British Columbia and leased to the ministry for the long-term. The Stellako River is one of the top rainbow trout river fisheries in B.C. and is also used by chinook and sockeye salmon. The river mouth at Fraser Lake is also important to red-listed Nechako white sturgeon. Designation as a wildlife management area under the Wildlife Act prioritizes conservation and management of wildlife, fish and their habitats. Other permitted land uses can be identified in an area management plan developed in consultation with conservation groups and other stakeholders. The designation also allows the ministry to make regulations to better manage the wildlife area. To learn more about the significance of designated wildlife management areas in B.C, visit: www.env.gov.bc.ca/bcparks/explore/wma - --------------------------- NEWS RELEASE Dec. 7, 2011 Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations Stellako River designated wildlife management area http://www2.news.gov.bc.ca/news_releases_2009-2013/2011FOR0220-001582.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 15:44:40 -0500 From: Bill Subject: I'd like to teach Coke about global warming and bad advertising I would also question why the Coke people and their advertising, think Polar Bears and Penguins live together.. on the same continent! Also: Now that Saint Suzuki of the global warming (or is that 'worming') religion has embarked on a plan to save none other than Santa Clause himself, has embraced the the Soupy Sales technique of " Hey Kids ! Send me a Dollar ", I'm convinced there is no limit to the deprivation and lies these charlatans will stoop to .. Pepsi it is... Bill.. On 12/8/2011 10:32 AM, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > http://www.thestarphoenix.com/life/like+teach+Coke+about+global+warming+information/5828195/story.html > > I'd like to teach Coke about global warming and bad information ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 19:10:34 -0800 From: "Clive Edwards" <45clive@telus.net> Subject: RE: Dutch General on TED talks- V14 #827 <7894FA43-D219-4B46-A703-575D1597B0F3@shaw.ca> In-Reply-To: <7894FA43-D219-4B46-A703-575D1597B0F3@shaw.ca> Thread-Index: Acy14WE0j+Zk8PjES2uOXu5XqT0sIwAPd0XQ Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca We need to get over this attitude we have that all societies need to look like us. Globalism is a disease. Those of us in the west now suffer authoritarian government. Diversity in the types of societies, governments, banking systems, cultures, etc. is the cure. Clive > Once Obama withdraws all U.S. forces Afghanistan may well > turn into a battleground between Iranian and Pakistani/Saudi > backed Taliban forces. Neither of them want a functional Afghan > government. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, December 9, 2011 12:30 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: EDITORIAL: Scrapping gun registry a disservice to long-gun victims ORANGEVILLE.COM - DECEMBER 7, 2011 Bad decision The Issue: Scrapping gun registry Our View: It's a disservice to long-gun victims http://www.orangeville.com/opinion/editorial/article/1259085--more-to-the-story A gun-clad 25-year-old man walked into a Montreal school and opened fire 22 years ago this past Tuesday. With a .22 caliber rifle in hand, he entered an engineering classroom and separated the men from the women, ordering the men to leave the room. As he opened fire on the room, he screamed his distaste for feminists. Fourteen women died on Dec. 6, 1989, a day that has come to be known as the Montreal Massacre. Dozens more were injured. It is a day Canadians and the world should never forget. Like many municipalities, Orangeville proclaimed Dec. 6 National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence Against Women in memory of the victims of the Montreal Massacre and women who are or have been victims of violence. Dec. 6 is a day victims and their families will never forget, and this particular anniversary is one some survivors are calling the saddest of them all, after the Conservative government decided to push forward with Bill C 19: An Act to amend the Criminal Code and the Firearms Act (Ending the Long-gun Registry Act). Following the devastating Montreal Massacre, many of the survivors rallied together and were successful in strengthening Canada's gun laws over the years, seeing statistics decline in gun related deaths involving women in the last two decades. Scrapping the act is a slap in the face to all women who have been victims of gun violence. The registry is deserving of protection, just as all women who have suffered physical, psychological abuse and violence are deserving of protection. Amending it is a disservice to those who have suffered and are suffering. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2011 06:57:12 -0700 From: 10x@telus.net Subject: Re: Scrapping gun registry a disservice to long-gun victims At , you wrote: > ORANGEVILLE.COM - DECEMBER 7, 2011 > Bad decision > The Issue: Scrapping gun registry > Our View: It's a disservice to long-gun victims > http://www.orangeville.com/opinion/editorial/article/1259085--more-to-the-story > > A gun-clad 25-year-old man walked into a Montreal school and opened > fire 22 years ago this past Tuesday. With a .22 caliber rifle in hand, > he entered an engineering classroom and separated the men from the > women, ordering the men to leave the room. As he opened fire on the > room, he screamed his distaste for feminists. Fourteen women died on > Dec. 6, 1989, a day that has come to be known as the Montreal Massacre. > Dozens more were injured. It is a day Canadians and the world should > never forget. > > Like many municipalities, Orangeville proclaimed Dec. 6 National Day of > Remembrance and Action on Violence Against Women in memory of the > victims of the Montreal Massacre and women who are or have been victims > of violence. What really happened was the legacy of very flawed gun legislation that has become a monument to a madman. Like the madman (Gamil Gharbi) the legislation is flawed and the actions under it are pointless. The gun Gharbi used did not cause his hatred of women, it did not change his values, nor do guns change the morality, thoughts, or incite violence in any sane person. To believe that an inanimate object has the power to change a persons morals and values borders on a belief in amulets and witchcraft. To sum up - the laws created following Gamil Gharbi's most horrific act are just as flawed and hateful as Gharbi and are a monument to a madman. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, December 9, 2011 10:40 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Letter: Don't brand us over our gun registry stance EDMONTON JOURNAL - DECEMBER 9, 2011 Letter: Don't brand us over our gun registry stance http://www.edmontonjournal.com/opinion/brand+over+registry+stance/5835022/story.html Re: "Protesters plead to save gun registry on anniversary of university massacre," The Journal, Dec. 7. http://www.edmontonjournal.com/opinion/brand+over+registry+stance/5835022/story.html I am an active member of the Conservative party and an opponent of the long-gun registry. This simple fact is being used by members of the New Democratic and Liberal parties to brand me as a hater of women, or at the very least an opponent of keeping women safe from violent acts. No other conclusion can be gleaned from the statements of Liberal and NDP MPs in regard to the 22nd anniversary of the massacre at Ecole Polytechnique. Conservative MPs are not welcome because they are dismantling the long-gun registry. It logically follows that Conservative supporters are equally unwelcome. Because of a policy disagreement as to the best way to prevent violent crime, the Liberal and NDP parties are branding a large segment of the Canadian population as uncaring toward the issue of violence toward women. It is such a sad thing that it's impossible to become mad about it. This is the rhetorical level we have sunk to in our society, where honest disagreements over policy descend into venomous accusations such as these. Dec. 6 will always be a sad day for all Canadians, but now it is sad for one more reason. James Raworth, Edmonton ------------------------------ Date: Fri, December 9, 2011 10:43 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Firearms investigation turned into a standoff VICTORIA TIMES COLONIST - DECEMBER 9, 2011 Standoff resolved peacefully BY JEFF BELL http://www.timescolonist.com/news/Standoff+resolved+peacefully/5835605/story.html A firearms investigation by Saanich police turned into a standoff at a home on Mildred Street Thursday. Saanich police spokesman Sgt. Dean Jantzen said officers arrived at the home on the normally quiet road, next to Knockan Hill Park, in advance of executing a search warrant. "We were waiting for a search warrant, and we went there in advance to contain the house, to make sure nobody left or went in," Jantzen said. The occupants, who turned out to be a 21yearold man and his mother, did not respond well, Jantzen said. He said the man is well-known to police. "We made contact inside and they weren't overly co-operative," Jantzen said. "Because it was about firearms and uncooperative people, it was treated like an armed and barricaded situation." The prospect of finding firearms also meant the Greater Victoria Emergency Response Team was called. Some surrounding homes were evacuated as a precaution. The incident unfolded between 5 and 6 p.m., and was resolved by about 8 p.m. Once the search warrant arrived, the man gave himself up. Police negotiators were in contact with him throughout. The search was expected to take some time, Jantzen said. "They'll probably be there through the balance of the night." Jantzen said a B.C. Transit bus was on the scene during the situation to provide a warm place for witnesses and evacuees. "The neighbours were all really good. I had several people pull up and say 'Thanks a lot'." jwbell@timescolonist.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, December 9, 2011 10:55 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Judge: "Canadians don't share this view and see possession ... ... of handguns as dangerous" VANCOUVER SUN - DECEMBER 8, 2011 Two pistol-packing seniors fined $20,000 after border gun bust By Gerry Bellett http://www.vancouversun.com/news/pistol+packing+seniors+fined+after+border+bust/5827447/story.html Two pistol-packing American senior citizens were fined $10,000 each Wednesday after being found with a small arsenal of undeclared firearms by Canada Border Services Agency officers who searched their motorhome July 11. The men - Danny Cross, 64, of Texas and his 70-year-old brother-in-law Hugh Barr - told guards at the Aldergrove border crossing that they had no weapons in their motorhome but a search disclosed a shotgun, a derringer-type pistol, a cowboy-style six gun, and three semi-automatic pistols. All except the shotgun were loaded. At the time, Cross and Barr - accompanied by their wives - were on their way to Alaska to celebrate Cross's wedding anniversary but instead ended up in jail for five days until a $50,000 bail for each was raised. Both pleaded guilty in Surrey Provincial Court to possession of loaded, prohibited weapons. Crown counsel Leanne Jomori told Judge James Bahen their actions warranted between 60 to 90 days in jail because they had deliberately lied to border guards. She said the pair were cavalier in their attitude to Canada's restrictive gun laws and didn't take them seriously. "Canada is not an extension of the United States. It is an independent country and its laws should be respected," said Jomori. Their lawyer Joel Whysall said a jail sentence was inappropriate given they had spent five days in jail and asked for a fine to be imposed as neither had a criminal record and were exemplary citizens in their own country.He said the men were carrying the guns for protection. When asked by the judge if they had anything to say, Barr, who spoke for them both, said they wanted to "apologize to the people of Canada for what we have done." "We are embarrassed and humiliated that we ignored the handgun laws of Canada. We had no intention of doing harm," said Barr. Bahen appeared to believe him. He said the guns were not secreted away in the vehicle, which would be indicative of smuggling, but were ready to hand. He accepted the pair's explanation that the guns were there for their protection. "It's not the position of the court to lecture Americans about guns as they feel it's necessary for their safety and protection to have guns close to hand," said Bahen. However, Canadians don't share this view and see possession of handguns as dangerous, he said. Bahen noted that the crown had agreed to proceed summarily with the charges and not by indictment. Had the crown proceeded by indictment, the court would have had no option but to sentence the pair to three years in jail upon conviction, he said. But he wouldn't send the pair to jail as it would be "cruel" to make examples of them as a "declaration of sovereignty" or as a demonstration of the enforcement of Canadian gun laws. Both men were in tears as they hugged family members who accompanied them to court. Outside, Barr was asked why they were carrying so many guns, and he said he'd heard that northern Canada was wild and dangerous - "a bit like it was in the old covered wagon days." gbellett@vancouversun.com - ----------------------------------- VANCOUVER SUN - DECEMBER 9, 2011 'I don't know if all Texans are this stupid' http://www.vancouversun.com/know+Texans+this+stupid/5835781/story.html The Sun asked readers what they thought about the $10,000 fines given to two American tourists who attempted to cross the border with six firearms. Here's what you had to say: "Who would travel to a place that was so dangerous you needed that many weapons? It's enough to start a small war. Having said that, the fine is sufficient, they got the message and future gun runners will know there isn't much profit once we fine them." - - e_a_f_ "Unfortunately, these two represent the classic stereotype of Americans - woe-fully uneducated, and feeling it's quite all right to ignore the laws of a foreign country just because you don't happen to like them." - - John_G "Were they treated fairly? Probably, though ignorance is no excuse, and I do have to wonder why they lied when first asked if they had any weapons." - - anonymous "I don't know if all Texans are this stupid but I do remember seeing a CBC TV news story about Texans being targeted at the Canadian border, especially if they are driving motor homes. I'm hoping this doesn't trickle down to the rest of us law-abiding Americans. I say pull over all the Texans you want! I'm sure the hit rate is over 50%." - - Arbutus T Swindell "Crime like this warrants jail time, for sure. Put them there and see if the cavalierism disappears. Bet it will." - - tweetthis "he'd heard that northern Canada was wild and dangerous - "a bit like it was in the old covered-wagon days." Jeez..... [Clint Eastwood Squint]. "Say WHAT?" They really believe that bunk down there, don't they?" - - Resident-Munchkin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, December 9, 2011 11:05 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Mandatory Gun Sentences Not Mandatory in All Cases VANCOUVER SUN - DECEMBER 8, 2011, 10:35 am Mandatory Gun Sentences Not Mandatory in All Cases Section: The Real Scoop by Kim Bolan http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2011/12/08/mandatory-gun-sentences-not-mandatory-in-all-cases/ Two American seniors who tried to get through the Canadian border last summer with several loaded guns didn't have to go to jail for three years when they pleaded guilty in Surrey Provincial Court Wednesday. That's because a federal Crown agreed to proceed "summarily" against Danny Cross and his brother-in-law Hugh Barr - meaning the mandatory three-year-minimum sentence did not apply. In fact the men (pictured above) each had to pay a $10,000 fine and nothing more. Judge James Bahen explained that because of the way the Crown proceeded, he didn't have to apply the the longer minimum sentence. And he said it was an appropriate remedy in this case where the two men were not criminals, but simply wanted to bring their legally registered firearms with them on a trip to Alaska. They didn't hide the guns, but they did lie to a border guard about carrying them. I wrote about a similar case earlier this year (see story below) where a young man with a gym bag containing firearms did not have to do the minimum three-year sentence. Perhaps people agree there should be room for Crown to negotiate these kinds of deals in appropriate cases. But the public should be aware that despite all the fanfare about mandatory three-year sentences, they don't always apply. Here's my colleague's story: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/pistol+packing+seniors+fined+after+border+bust/5827447/story.html Here's my earlier story: VANCOUVER SUN - MAY 12, 2011 Loaded guns at mall land man 16-month jail sentence BY KIM BOLAN, VANCOUVER SUN http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Loaded+guns+mall+land+month+jail+sentence/4769556/story.html ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #829 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)