Cdn-Firearms Digest Saturday, December 24 2011 Volume 14 : Number 856 In this issue: RE: "Second Period of Islamic Power" Ministry makes QC selections Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #855 fired in the air ("... while cleaning ....") RE: "Second Period of Islamic Power" RE: Sniper Detectors Coming to America's Heartland "high risk takedowns" Re: A card for you. Law suit settled with the RCMP; Woman died of exposure Anti-drug-den law could face hurdle in court Merry Christmas "Prime Minister reshaping the way Canada is governed"-G&M "RCMP Bob Paulson at the editorial board" G&M ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 14:12:29 +0000 From: Dave McNeil Subject: RE: "Second Period of Islamic Power" >> So the question arises: If Islamism is capturing Libya, Tunisia and >> Egypt, and will capture other Muslim nations as the Arab Spring >> advances, where is the historic evidence that these Islamic regimes >> can convert their states into manufacturing and military powers? > > Just because we believe industrial and military might to define > advanced civilizations that is not necessarily objectively true. > Increasing numbers of "Western" citizens are finding their culture > hollow and soul-less. A culture based on atheism, "hookups", > meaningless work and meaningless rewards in the way of electronic > trinkets provides no food for the soul. Contemporary television, > film, music and especially mass spectator sports are today's bread > and circuses and further depersonalize one's life. Addictions such as > carnality and drugs are misguided and ultimately unsuccessful attempts > to find meaning, a reason to continue living. > > Meaning and purpose are absolutely necessary for humans. God, > family, occupation and community provide the anchors necessary. > Christianity and Judaism once supported those anchors in the West. Our > current culture is destructive of both Christianity and Judaism, family > and community. > > Islam supports the soul better than atheism. Atheism cannot compete > because the best it can offer are distractions and placebos - > entertainment unto death. When we were observant Christians and Jews, > even Buddhists, we knew this. We need to turn inward and see to our own > needs. We need to stop trying to convert the world to atheism. In this > context, industrialism beyond satiation and military beyond minimal > defensive requirements are not important. Clive, Oh my, what a narrow little mind "we" have! It's a good thing we have you to point out to the rest of us what pointless little lives atheists lead. Your rambling response to the question whether Islam can ever nuture a modern civilized society becomes simply a rant against atheism. Do you really need to be told that it's not atheists that are killing each other in Iraq, Libya, Syria, and Egypt to name just a few? I can assure you those societies are not in trouble due to rampant atheism. And you say "we" need to stop trying to convert the world to atheism? Give me a break. I cannot recall anyone ever coming to my door to ask me if I had rejected god lately but I can recall plenty of visits from folks who try to convince me to accept god and whatever brand of religion they were following. What atheists really want is to be free. Free from religion and from people like you who think "we" need to be more religious. While you are free to bemoan the apparent decline of whatever values you hold dear your continued use of the word "we", as though everyone was in agreement, while you blame the decline of your chosen value system on atheists is most offensive. And, finally, how your post made it to the Canadian *Firearms* Digest is a somewhat of a mystery to me. Dave McNeil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 09:52:30 -0600 From: "Joe Gingrich" Subject: Ministry makes QC selections http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/Ministry+makes+selections/5902091/story.html Ministry makes QC selections The StarPhoenix December 23, 2011 Saskatchewan's Justice Ministry has bestowed the Queen's Counsel honour upon 16 more lawyers. Among this year's recipients of the QC designation are University of Saskatchewan college of law dean Sanjeev Anand, Rawlco Radio in-house counsel and radio host John Gormley and La Ronge Crown prosecutor Robert Lane. "These exceptional recipients being honoured with a Queen's Counsel designation have a range of experience and represent the very best of our legal community," Justice Minister Don Morgan said in a Thursday news release. Morgan said there has been a move in recent years to expand the QC designation beyond barristers to recognize solicitors, corporate counsel and "those who have contributed to the legal profession in the courtroom." - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://regina.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20111222/sask-queenscounsel-111222/20111222/?hubRegina CTV Regina Thursday Dec. 22, 2011 John Gormley is one of 16 Saskatchewan lawyers honoured with a Queen's Counsel appointment. The tradition dates back to 1594 when Queen Elizabeth I appointed Sir Francis Bacon as her executive legal advisor. "These exceptional recipients being honoured with a Queen's Counsel designation have a range of experience and represent the very best of our legal community," said Justice Minister and Attorney General Don Morgan is a press release. In recent years, there has been a push to expand the appointments to recognize more than just barristers and include solicitors and corporate counsel. Other Saskatchewan lawyers who received appointments are Ronald Balacko, Gregory Willows, and Craig Zawada. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.justice.gov.sk.ca/Queens-Counsel-Act The Queen's Counsel Act Under The Queen's Counsel Act, the Lieutenant Governor in Council may bestow on lawyers in Saskatchewan the honorary title of "Queen's Counsel for the Province of Saskatchewan". With the exception of the appointment of the Attorney General as Queen's Counsel, lawyers must have been entitled to practice in any province in Canada or the Northwest Territories, or in Great Britain or Ireland for a period of 10 years before they can be appointed. If a lawyer who holds the appointment of Queen's Counsel is disbarred under The Legal Profession Act, the appointment is automatically revoked. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 12:14:38 -0400 From: "M.J. Ackermann, MD" Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #855 On 23/12/11 11:53, Todd wrote: > A muzzleloader fired in the air ("... while cleaning ....") more than a > mile away struck and killed this Amish girl ..... ? Right ...... > > Great reporting! Must have been some rifle. This is a ballistic miracle. > Time to ban them muzzleloaders. They need to be deemed as dangerous as > the .50 Barrett. I was on the range last week with my Traditions .45 in-line muzzle loader. Using 100 gr FFG Pyrodex and 200 gr saboted SJHP hunting bullets I fired at a 1/4" steel plate target from 50 yards. After 6 shots and no "gong" or knock down, I was incredulous that I had missed so many times. I went forward to inspect the target. There were six holes, each over 1/2" diameter, with absolutely laser clean edges - no cratering or deformity at all. I am amazed that the BP rifle at 3/4 maximum recommended powder charge will put our a bullet with sufficient velocity to cut through a steel plate without knocking it down. It has to be fast. When I figure out how to safely chronograph the BP rifle, I'm going to see what the muzzle velocity and energy is. Once I know that I can put the values into a BP ballistic calculator to see what energy and velocity remain at 2000 yards. Just eyeballing it, I think it will result in lethal energy against a soft target like someone's head. The shot would be falling likely at 80 degrees and the probability of randomly hitting the girl is exceedingly low, but assuming the scene reconstruction agrees with these physics, it would appear possible. Of course it is always possible that this was in fact a murder, using directed fire from much closer range, but in that case the scene would not agree with the story we have been told. - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) Rural Family Physician, Box 13, 120 Cameron Rd. Sherbrooke, NS Canada B0J 3C0 902-522-2172 mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca "Hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst". ** Please always use BCC and erase appended address lists when forwarding or sending to groups ** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 11:20:34 -0500 From: Bill Subject: fired in the air ("... while cleaning ....") I wonder if the NQDP (New Quebec Democratic Party) would freak if they knew you could buy a deadly *Thompson* .50 Cal. *Sniper Rifle* at Cabelas.. hahaha Bill On 12/23/2011 10:53 AM, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 08:35:45 -0800 > From: Todd Birch > Subject: Amish girl > > A muzzleloader fired in the air ("... while cleaning ....") more than a > mile away struck and killed this Amish girl ..... ? Right ...... > > Great reporting! Must have been some rifle. This is a ballistic miracle. > Time to ban them muzzleloaders. They need to be deemed as dangerous as > the .50 Barrett. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 09:33:12 -0800 From: "Clive Edwards" <45clive@telus.net> Subject: RE: "Second Period of Islamic Power" > ...it's not atheists that are killing each other in Iraq, Libya, > Syria, and Egypt to name just a few? I can assure you those societies > are not in trouble due to rampant atheism. So who exactly are the bad guys in the middle east (and just about everywhere else on the planet right now, including the good ole USA)? I'll give you a hint - the neo-conservatives and the zionists, not true Christians and Jews. Defense - Good. Bombing foreigners in their beds - bad. >And you say "we" need to stop trying to convert the world to atheism? >Give me a break > ...while you blame the decline of your >chosen value system on atheists is most offensive. Who would you blame it on? If you are taking this personally, I am sorry. Political Correctness never was my strong suit. Disagree with me - good. Allow your passion to blind you to the actual points I am making - bad. Name calling brings nothing useful to the discussion. >And, finally, how your post made it to the Canadian *Firearms* Digest >is a somewhat of a mystery to me. Morality and guns are intimately connected. Self interest alone leads to the situation in the world today, where the bullies portray themselves and righteous victims in order to use overwhelming force against those merely defending themselves. Self interest - kiss the government's ass. Morality - not so much. Bruce and Donna Montague are not athiests. Wendy Cukier and company are. You choose. I'm not trying to convert anyone. I am trying to get the point across that if you don't believe in something you will fall for anything. I'm not saying athiests have nothing to contribute. It's just that everyone I am aware of in history who has fought for freedom has had some sort of religious beliefs, even if they are "deists". While great evils have been and continue to be perpetrated in the name of one religion or other, closer examination always reveals ulterior motives that may be attributed to the leaders. Stalin, Mao and virtually all those who perpetrated genocide were athiests. Cordially, Clive Edwards "Just because I believe in non-aggression doesn't mean I believe in non-violence." "Just because I don't believe in being a victim doesn't mean I believe in being a bully." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 09:49:57 -0800 From: "Clive Edwards" <45clive@telus.net> Subject: RE: Sniper Detectors Coming to America's Heartland > It sounds like a scene from The Minority Report, but it's real. A new > technology called ShotSpotter enables law enforcement officials to > precisely and instantaneously locate shooters, and it has been quietly > rolling out across America So what? The old adage, when seconds count help is minutes away still applies. I heard several years ago that Albertans were shooting out unmanned roadside cameras. I suspect countermeasures can and will be used against the ShotSpotter if it is set up in gang territory. In any case, stop the vehicle, release decoys, shoot frangible bullets with a revolver, leave would seem to be the gang banger's best offense. > Also in the pipeline, SST is developing a wearable gunshot detection > system built into a vest, including acoustic sensors, integrated GPS > and display. Ha Ha Ha Ha! This way the wearer will know someone is shooting at them? Who exactly is selling this snake oil to the taxpayers? Cordially, Clive Edwards "Just because I believe in non-aggression doesn't mean I believe in non-violence." "Just because I don't believe in being a victim doesn't mean I believe in being a bully." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 13:29:46 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: "high risk takedowns" We see articles about "high risk" takedowns by police with them pointing guns at, and handcuffing people, who are neither accused of committing, nor threatening an act of violence, and may in fact have not actually broken any law at all. It is simply that those citizens may be in possession of a firearm (or a toy, or steering wheel lock, or hockey stick et al) according to some allegation, no matter how flimsy. So, if three legally licenced , with the required 3 or 4 gov't. permits, hunters are driving through town or down the highway, with their 3 rifles/shotguns on a rear window rack. Are the police then going to do one of these "high risk" takedowns? Displaying a firearm in a window rack while the vehicle is attended is not illegal, or wasn't the last time I read the regulations. There is a contradiction between treating everyone possessing or even allegedly possessing a firearm, as a criminal dangerous to the public. Then with current protocols, potentially hundreds of thousands of legal hunters being subject to "high risk" takedowns by the police*. Yet, those citizens driving down the road with firearms on display in a window rack, would be the least likely citizens in Canada to be chosen by criminals to be robbed, raped, maimed or murdered. Irony. The contradiction is a political one. Being unreasonable in regulating a privilege is not a legal one unless a recognized Constitutional Right is being violated. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 15:54:34 -0500 (EST) From: Rob Sciuk Subject: Re: A card for you. On Fri, 23 Dec 2011, Len Miller wrote: > Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 08:12:09 -0800 > From: Len Miller > To: Cdn-Firearms Digest > Subject: A card for you. > > forwarded by Len > who cares > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: "Len >> Date: December 23, 2011 7:03:32 AM PST (CA) >> To: >> Subject: A card for you. >> Reply-To: " >> >> A card for you. >> >> I would like to wish you and your's and very Merry Christmas and a Happy >> New Year. >> >> MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL >> Thanks, Len ... and Merry Christmas to all 8-) Rob. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 08:34:57 -0600 From: "Joe Gingrich" Subject: Law suit settled with the RCMP; Woman died of exposure http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/Family+drops+lawsuit+case+against+RCMP/5907050/story.html Family drops lawsuit in case against RCMP Woman died of exposure By Charlene Tebbutt, For The StarPheonix December 24, 2011 The family of a young woman who died while searching for help along an isolated road in northwest Saskatchewan has dropped their lawsuit against the RCMP and the provincial government. Family members of Kerry Canepotatoe filed papers Dec. 12 to drop the lawsuit against the RCMP and the province's Highways Ministry. Canepotatoe's parents and siblings started legal action earlier this year following her death in April 2010 near Big River. Canepotatoe, 19, died of exposure while searching for help after she and her cousin Melissa Rabbitskin and two young boys became stranded on the rough and muddy road while travelling to their home near Loon Lake. The group called 911 three times, although only one call connected. A tow truck was sent to help, but the driver eventually abandoned the search. Canepotatoe left the car to walk for help. Her body was found four days after the 911 call about 70 kilometres from the stranded vehicle. A search party rescued Rabbitskin and the boys, who had survived a week in the car with no food or water. Canepotatoe's sister would not comment about the lawsuit when contacted this week, saying Kerry's death is still very difficult for the family to accept. The family has said in previous interviews they consider Kerry a hero. The family's lawyer, Peter Abrametz Sr., said Friday the suit has been settled with the RCMP, but would not give details. The suit has also been dropped against the Highways Ministry. No settlement was reached with the ministry. A lawsuit on behalf of Rabbitskin and the two children is ongoing. Abrametz said he is hoping that suit will be resolved within the next year. He said the incident has been difficult for all involved, adding Rabbitskin has suffered some medical issues as well. "It has been a very trying time for them," he added. RCMP Sgt. Paul Dawson confirmed this week that a settlement had been reached with Canepotatoe's family, but would not say what it involved. The family has asked for confidentiality, he added. Canepotatoe's death led to questions over the lack of police response to the group's 911 call. The RCMP later made a public apology, saying mistakes were made in the way the emergency call was handled. New procedures have since been put into place and calls where help is not dispatched are now reviewed by a supervisor. They had previously been handled at the discretion of the dispatcher. Dawson said the RCMP dispatcher who handled the 911 call from Canepotatoe and Rabbitskin was ordered to be disciplined under the RCMP's code of conduct. However, he retired in May before any action could be taken against him. The dispatcher had worked with the RCMP for more than 30 years. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 08:40:04 -0600 From: "Joe Gingrich" Subject: Anti-drug-den law could face hurdle in court http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/Anti+drug+could+face+hurdle+court/5907084/story.html Anti-drug-den law could face hurdle in court By Douglas Quan, Postmedia News December 24, 2011 They were designed to empower citizens to take action against neighbourhood drug dens and bawdy houses. But laws passed in several provinces that allow officials to shutter homes and businesses suspected of regularly being used for illegal activity could come under fresh scrutiny. A Nova Scotia couple who were ordered out of their home after a judge found they were likely selling and using drugs on the property have appealed their eviction to that province's highest court, arguing the standard used to evict them was too low. It's the first time such a case has been considered at the appeal court level in Canada, and a decision could come at any time, said their lawyer Tony Mozvik. "Before you remove somebody, it seems to me you'd better really make sure they're doing something in violation of the act," Mozvik said. "Rumour and innuendo is not enough. In this case that's all they really had." Under the so-called Safer Communities and Neighbourhoods laws - which exist in Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick - residents can file anonymous complaints with their province about problem properties. If, after conducting surveillance on the property, provincial investigators - typically retired police officers - believe the complaints are valid, they can take a number of measures, including sending warning letters to the owners or working with landlords to evict tenants. In more serious or difficult cases, investigators can turn to a judge to order the property shut down for up to 90 days. No criminal conviction is necessary. Supporters of the legislation say such civil remedies are often more effective in dealing with problem properties than launching criminal investigations. If police arrest a drug dealer, the drug dealing can persist at the property. Shutting down the property ensures the criminal activity stops. "We're able to deal with the property itself, so the activity can't continue in that location," said Candace Cook, a spokesperson for the Alberta Law Enforcement Response Team, which has completed more than 1,000 investigations since 2008, with most being resolved informally and 15 requiring a judge's intervention. Furthermore, civil matters are decided on a balance of probabilities, which is lower than the reasonable-doubt threshold required in criminal cases, meaning investigations don't need to take as long. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 09:52:43 -0700 From: "Todd Brown" Subject: Merry Christmas Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is to wish everyone a very Merry Christmas and a happy New Year..enjoy the holidays and be safe Take care, Todd Brown ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 14:42:37 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: "Prime Minister reshaping the way Canada is governed"-G&M Tom Flanagan see the Harper Administration taking a classical view of federalism by respecting provincial jurisdiction. That is evident in his approach to health care. Certainly, he and the Finance Minister are looking for savings of 4 Billion dollars in federal spending. As for provincial jurisdiction, since the Constitutional amending formula requires a House and Senate ratification, I believe, this is as good as it gets. A Right to Hunt amendment is timely but that opportunity has a limited window of opportunity. That the Firearms Act and Regulations are pith and substance regulatory law and thus provincial jurisdiction seems obvious to us. However, there are vested interests in Ottawa and elsewhere who have quickly gloomed onto the new police protocol that a SWAT team is required and the whole neighbourhood is alarmed because someone might possess a firearm. It seems like having the health quarantine and alarm an entire neighbourhood because someone might have the a bad flu or the measles. Are not errors in judgement for the justice "industry" dangerous to our life, liberty, security of the person and property as errors in the medical "industry" is to our health. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/prime-minister-reshaping-the-way-canada-is-governed/article2282886/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 16:50:12 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: "RCMP Bob Paulson at the editorial board" G&M http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/editorials/rcmp-commissioner-bob-paulson-at-the-editorial-board/article2277362/page1/ Here's interview excerpts (only) of note. I think they'll be few and far between for the a while. Until, at least he has something to point to or a scandal to address. It would be nice to read the whole interview. Since the consensus media view sexual politics as paramount, they may focus on that. Thus ignoring the more serious string of incidents that have involved the general public, morally and often legally innocent losing life, security and property over the last number of years. Clearly, the Harper Administration has set some performance standards for the RCMP if they are to continue, at least in their present form. Or at least thats the official story. I think that is somewhere between very difficult to impossible at the present staffing levels. Had a province or two reverted back to a Provincial Police force it would have given him room to raise standards and weed out those who are unsuitable. Doing that while straining to meet recruitment numbers runs counter to that in the short to intermediate term. The word from those who have had to do remedial training, is that in Depot the new recruits are so indoctrinated in political correctness, it takes their mentors years to reorient them to reality. That information kind of offset my old view that insufficient training, as in 6 months was the problem. It's obviously more complicated than that. The federal government subsidizes federal police being used as "provincial police" in most provinces, which is the provinces Constitutional responsibility. By subsidizing this intrusion into provincial jurisdiction, it costs the federal budget a lot of money. Apart from federal empire building, treating the smaller or Western provinces, as colonies, what is the justification for using the RCMP as provincial police? The answer so far is, most provinces want the financial subsidy and ignore the requisite questions of administrative responsibility and Ottawa the financial responsibility. As for accountability to citizens for what they pay for, Ottawa is very far away from the Western and Maritime provinces, farther away than just the physical distance. As for the cases and policy questions we have, getting those addressed will depend on not forgetting them but raising them until they are. What is an error in judgement and what is due to an error in indoctrination and policy? A paradigm case is that of a Mr. Buck in B.C. who who challenged the revocation of his P.A.Licence. He discovered, by way of a sympathetic judge, who did what neither Buck nor his council could in what is a hearing, cross-examined the two testifying officers. They admitted they had lied, simply made up a story of Buck being a danger to his wife. Of course, neither officer was punished, why would they be, when the Detachment's C.O. endorsed what they did on the basis of civilians with firearms were a crime waiting to happen. He then referenced as his justification, a member of an immigrant community group, who had assassinated his estranged girlfriend and members of her wedding party. This was reported in the old The Report magazine. That is a bigger problem than an error of judgement. Had Mr. Buck been able to sue based on a Constitutional Right e.i. Right to Hunt, he would have had a string of lawyers offering to take the case, and pro- hunting organizations (remember those?) rallying to defend him. There are of course many other cases, but that one caused many of us to ask out loud the question, *"Tell me, when, exactly, did we (millions of Canadians gunowners,) become white trash?" (Fred Eaglesmith, Canadian country singer) We know the answer is C-17 1991/C-68 1995. The bigger question is will that ever change? Have a Merry Christmas ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #856 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)