Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, January 9 2012 Volume 14 : Number 874 In this issue: Re: RCMP to confiscate more guns before registry ends Re: Canadian Firearms Institute RE: RCMP threaten holders of legally acquired, legally RE: RCMP threaten holders of legally acquired, legally ARMI JAGER RIFLE - NOTICE OF REVOCATION Not directly firearm related, but it will have relevance ... Letter to the Prime Minister - Reclassification of Armi Jager... B.C. group to save some 150 feral Canmore bunnies from cull Re: 10x +RCMP threaten holders of legally acquired Australian anti-gun lobby horrified; gun outnumber people in 24 RE: 'Pistol packin' mama' gets permission to shoot intruder Re: Letter to the Prime Minister - Reclassification of ... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2012 12:07:57 -0800 From: R. LaCasse Subject: Re: RCMP to confiscate more guns before registry ends On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 06:44:27 -0600 (CST), you wrote: >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Fri, January 6, 2012 1:28 pm >From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" >Subject: RCMP to confiscate more guns before registry ends > >MONTREAL GAZETTE - JANUARY 6, 2012, 12:10 PM >RCMP to confiscate more guns before registry ends >By Jeff Davis, Postmedia News >http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/RCMP+confiscate+more+guns+before+registry+ends/5957717/story.html > >With the firearms registry on death's door, the RCMP are using what little >time remains to reclassify and seize certain scary-looking guns from the >hands of Canadian firearms owners. Among the guns being seized is a >small-calibre varmint rifle called the Armi Jager AP80. Like many >non-restricted rifles, it is semi-automatic and fires the .22-calibre >bullet, the smallest and weakest used in any long gun. The AP80 has been >singled out because it looks too much like the infamous AK-47 assault rifle Poor little .22's getting whacked by the paper assed legislators.....they gotta their kicks with all their "gun_knowledge". The "appearance" gun issue if barrel lugs, barrel shrouds, etc........all types of ^look scary^ based restrictions is an issue that should be looked over by a sanatorium...... As if the gun licensing system wasn't weird enough, the gun grabbing attitude should be left to Nazi countries, NOT Canada. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2012 00:38:30 -0400 From: Al Muir Subject: Re: Canadian Firearms Institute That appears to be fairly common. How do you distinguish one from the other? Al > Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 06:59:38 -0500 > From: Norman Lapierre > Subject: Re: Canadian Firearms Institute > > CFI is poison and to be avoided. > The scammers running it are Jim Newman and Pyper Unitt, both formerly of > the CSSA. > Jim is running a scam to line his own pockets. > > Norman Lapierre > norman.lapierre2@gmail.com > > On 2012-01-04, at 10:16 PM, Keith wrote: > >> A couple of Questions. >> What is this organization?? >> How is it the same as the NFA? >> How is it different from the NFA? >> Who are the executive? >> Where is the main office? >> >> Keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 01:08:26 -0800 From: "Clive Edwards" <45clive@telus.net> Subject: RE: RCMP threaten holders of legally acquired, legally If Harper had kept his promise, legalized firearms, malicious bureaucrats wouldn't be nearly the issue they still are. Harper would have removed the club they use to beat us with. Let them get paid to show up at work when they want to just like the senators. The need for jobs does not justify infringing liberty, let alone the creation of a police state. Clive ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2012 07:35:07 -0700 From: 10x@telus.net Subject: RE: RCMP threaten holders of legally acquired, legally At 01:08 AM 08/01/2012 -0800, you wrote: >did not change the bureuacrats entrenched in the civil service - bureaucrats >with a mandate to carry out the laws passed by previous Liberal Governments. >Bureaucrats with an agenda and will to carry out that mandate. > >*****SNIP***** > >little power in selecting the individuals and positions to be cut. That >means that the agenda driven bureaucrats working contrary to the policy of >the government may well not be the ones fired...> > > If Harper had kept his promise, legalized firearms, malicious bureaucrats >wouldn't be nearly the issue they still are. Harper would have removed the >club they use to beat us with. Let them get paid to show up at work when >they want to just like the senators. > >The need for jobs does not justify infringing liberty, let alone the >creation of a police state. > >Clive When one looks at Section 91 of the Criminal Code of Canada that makes mere possession of a gun a criminal code offense one can surmise that C-19(2011) is token legislation that does not do anything for gun owners. Section 91 C.C.C. coupled with the powers granted the minister in charge of the Firearms act under section 117 place every legal gun owner in Canada in future jepardy. The same jepardy that those who possess guns without licenses now face, or those who let a gun license expire will face. The RCMP has requested that holders of the AP80 ( a firearm not named to be a variant of the AK47) to turn these guns over to the RCMP. The AP80 was apparently made in the same factory as a "named variant" and shares common parts with a "named variant". How ever only the Minister of Justice (under section 117 of the firearms act) can actually "name" a variant - not a bureaucrat. BTW: the RCMP will seize these guns and lay criminal charges even though there is 1) no intimidation on the part of the gun owner 2) no threat made by the gun owner, 3) no injury of others 4) no rape 5) no robbery, 6) no murder, and 7) no victim. Something is very broken in Canada and it is law enforcement and the legal system that backs it up. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, January 8, 2012 9:28 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: ARMI JAGER RIFLE - NOTICE OF REVOCATION NOTICE OF REVOCATION OF A REGISTRATION CERTIFICATE Date of Revocation: December 20,2011 - Armi Jager Rifle http://firearmslaw.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/AP-80-Revocation-notice.pdf ------------------------------ Date: Sun, January 8, 2012 10:29 am From: "M.J. Ackermann, MD" Subject: Not directly firearm related, but it will have relevance ... ... when C-19 is passed. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/opinion/parliament-acted-legally-when-it-passed-bill-c-18/article2291554/ - -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) Rural Family Physician, Sherbrooke, NS mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca "Hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst". ------------------------------ Date: Sun, January 8, 2012 10:41 am From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Letter to the Prime Minister - Reclassification of Armi Jager... ... AP-80 rifle Bill Whatcott's letter to Prime Minister Stephen Harper - January 7, 2012 Re: Reclassification of Armi Jager AP-80 rifle http://freenorthamerica.ca/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8743#p20586 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, January 8, 2012 3:10 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: B.C. group to save some 150 feral Canmore bunnies from cull NATIONAL POST - JANUARY 8, 2012 B.C. group to save some feral Canmore bunnies from cull By Tamara Gignac http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01/08/b-c-group-to-save-some-feral-canmore-bunnies-from-cull/ CALGARY - Officials in Canmore, Alta., have finalized an agreement with a British Columbia rescue group to relocate some of the mountain resort town's out-of-control feral bunny population. It's estimated there are at least 2,000 of the furry creatures breeding in the area, defecating on lawns and potentially luring hungry coyotes and cougars. A decision by the town to trap and kill the rabbits inspired outraged calls, e-mails and even threats. News of the cull also prompted an Internet-based tourism boycott of the mountain retreat. But on Jan. 5, Canmore officials accepted an offer from a rescue organization to provide a sanctuary for approximately 150 of the animals. Earthanimal Humane Education and Rescue Society (EARS) will take as many of the bunnies as it can afford and relocate them to two animal sanctuaries in the Calgary area. It costs about $130 a year to keep one of the domesticated rabbits healthy and fed, according to EARS director Susan Vickery. "I won't take on animals that I can't look after," she said. "We have to make responsible decisions about the ongoing care of these rabbits. Killing isn't the worst scenario. The worst scenario is discovering months later that they've all been shipped out somewhere and are sick or starving to death." Trapping is expected to begin this month. While most of the rabbits will have to be euthanized, a lucky few will find a new home with EARS. Before arriving at the sanctuary, the bunnies will first be spayed and neutered at a clinic operated by the City of Calgary. "We have a surgical facility that we allow visiting veterinarians to work in," said Bill Bruce, director of bylaw services. "It won't cost us anything to unlock the door and let vets come in to do work on the rabbits as volunteers." The debate over what to do with Canmore's exploding bunny population made international headlines and prompted a number of groups to come forward with possible alternatives to a cull. Animal Rescue Corps (ARC), a non-profit animal protection organization based out of Washington D.C., offered to capture, sterilize all of Canmore's feral rabbits but town officials said the plan did not meet the criteria for sanctuary proposals. Meanwhile, a Stoney Nation man said he would be happy to accept the animals onto his land where band members could snare the free-roaming creatures for meat and fur. And the matter even faced a legal challenge when an Edmonton man who kept bunnies as family pets unsuccessfully applied for an injunction to stop the rabbit cull. Officials with the town, including Mayor Ron Casey, could not be reached for comment Saturday. Vickery is hopeful that donations to EARS through the website canmorebunnies.blogspot.com will save of the animals. "I wish there was a way to rescue them all," she said. "Every time I get a donation for $130, that's another rabbit." - --------------------------- CBC - Moose cull ends in Newfoundland national parks CBC News - Last Updated: Jan 8, 2012 2:49 PM NT http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2012/01/08/nl-moose-national-parks-0108.html This is the last day hunters can legally shoot moose in two national parks in Newfoundland. Permits were issued for more than 400 moose in Gros Morne and Terra Nova. Parks Canada says it hopes letting hunters into the parks will help prevent hungry moose from turning forests into fields. "We're losing forests progressively, year by year," Tom Knight of Parks Canada said. "As insects or fire disturb the forests, when the forests start to regrow underneath that, moose browsing is preventing it from regenerating." High moose density Parks Canada estimates there are as many as five moose per square kilometre in Gros Morne Park alone - among the highest moose densities in the world. According to ecologists, the overabundance of moose in the parks is just a small part of the moose population problem. There are at least 110,000 moose in Newfoundland - a situation that has led to hundreds of highway crashes a year. Eugene Nippard is with a citizens group advocating for moose population control. Last January, his group backed a class-action lawsuit against the provincial goverment by highway accident victims. More licences Since then the province has erected fences on portions of the highway along with a wildlife warning system and issued more hunting licenses. Nippard would like to see more. "We just had one of our executive members in hospital during Christmas," he said. "She got busted up pretty bad right there by her home at an intersection by a moose." Parks Canada says it will be some time before it knows if all 402 moose were hunted in the two parks. Nippard hopes the cull will continue this fall. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 16:32:58 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: Re: 10x +RCMP threaten holders of legally acquired 10x makes a good point. There are thousands of federal public servants, who will use what powers they have against the morally innocent, while in hot pursuit of their personal "holy war" against civilian firearms possession. It will take some time before they retire. Having them part of future budget cutbacks would be sheer luck. Their fervor for managing other people's lives is endless. Once elected the Cabinet faces a massive lobby of bureaucrats. Police, who like how easy it is to confiscate firearms in the course of their work, are among them. So, the gradual confiscation and destruction continues as per the Mulroney/Chretien legislation. Some commentators see the Harper Conservative government as one that makes incremental changes. Will they offer another tidbit before the next election? Are we to become captive to the oppression of low expectations? How much does Harper and his cabinet support C-17/C-68? When they are forced to debate and justify that we'll find out, not likely not before. No one has to date even asked them to why legal to possess firearms are confiscated and destroyed instead of offered for sale? Unless there long term goal is the same as the Liberals and NDP, that of civilian disarmament. Most people have easier access to lobbying their provincial politicians than the federal ones, generally speaking. If you want access to politicians, form a lobby group, and you'll get it once you've gained a following from which access to the media will result. How many will ask to meet with their M.P. over the House of Commons break? It resumes on January 30th. I'm sure they are aware of the "critical" support they received from the RFC during the last campaign. :) Those who thought simply electing a Conservative government would be enough were naive, those of us who expected, at least, a more sympathetic administration still have lots of work to do. When Harper made the promise to repeal C-68 that was something the passing of that bill had been objected to by 8 of 10 provinces and two territories. All is quiet on that front. Meanwhile, a Prime Minister and Cabinet Ministers have full agenda. There are many competing interests trying to get placed on it. On 7-Jan-12, at 9:25 PM, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2012 06:53:03 -0700 > From: 10x@telus.net > Subject: RE: RCMP threaten holders of legally acquired, legally > > At 08:34 PM 06/01/2012 -0800, you wrote: >> Jeez, Larry! Tell us what you really think! You're not the only one >> spitting drool when you respond to what one or another faceless >> bureaucrat >> is doing to the Canadian people. >> >> Sure, we got rid of the Liberals for their cuplability in all of >> this. >> Unfortunately we believed Harper was on our side. He did the old >> salesman's >> trick of "bait and switch" on us. I guess the public employees' >> union would >> wobble if a politician yanked their chain. If they did walk out >> perhaps >> Harper could do a Reagan on them. Nah! Not in Canada, you say? >> Pity. >> >> Clive > > In defense of the C.P.C. - Canadian voters changed the government. > Voters > did not change the bureuacrats entrenched in the civil service - > bureaucrats with a mandate to carry out the laws passed by previous > Liberal > Governments. Bureaucrats with an agenda and will to carry out that > mandate. > > The actions of those in the C.F.C. who by the terms of the Firearms > act > should be under the direct control and supervision of the Minister in > charge of the Firearms act, are clouded, shaded, and protected by the > C.F.C. now being under the umbrella of the R.C.M.P. Those > bureaucrats no > longer answer to the minister in charge but are allowed to act > independently. > > Recent legislation has transferred power from Parliament and the > Cabinet to > the bureaucrats and that power can not be infringed without the > passage of > legislation to place it back into the realm of Cabinet and Parliament. > > Mr. Harper can reduce the number of bureaucrats, but the ministers > have > little power in selecting the individuals and positions to be cut. > That > means that the agenda driven bureaucrats working contrary to the > policy of > the government may well not be the ones fired... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, January 8, 2012 7:19 pm From: "Dennis & Hazel Young" Subject: Australian anti-gun lobby horrified; gun outnumber people in 24 Victorian towns Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca Revealed: The small Victorian towns with more guns than people http://www.news.com.au/national/police-blitz-to-stop-illegal-firearms-hitting-our-streets/story-e6frfkvr-1226239455823 GUNS outnumber people in 24 Victorian towns a special investigation has revealed and the figures have horrified the anti-gun lobby. The East Gippsland hamlet of Swifts Creek has the highest ratio: 774 registered firearms shared by just 278 residents, the Herald Sun reports. National Coalition for Gun Control chairwoman Sam Lee said more guns led to more crime. Annual figures show an increase of 62 per cent in robberies involving firearms in Victoria. Detective Supt Brett Guerin, head of Victoria Police's serious crime division, said those involved in recent lawless behaviour in Melbourne's northwest suburbs had been "shooting up the streets as if it's the wild west". He reinforced the police strategy of "unremitting harassment" to deter the use of firearms. The 3551 postcode, taking in towns on the outskirts of Bendigo, had the highest number of registered guns - 7179. French Island in Western Port Bay and Harrow, in the Wimmera, rounded out the top three gun hot spots. Victoria has 642,176, or nearly 23 per cent, of the 2.8 million firearms registered in Australia. Police are worried after more than 39,000 extra firearms were registered in Victoria in 18 months to June last year, despite an increase of only 5000 in the number of licensed shooters. They said their biggest concern was the number of pistols in the community and people's willingness to use them to commit crimes. Senior police said they would blitz gun dealers and licensed shooters to try to stop legal firearms getting on the black market. It comes as figures show registered guns now outnumber people in 24 Victorian towns. The highest proportion is in the East Gippsland hamlet of Swifts Creek where 278 residents own 774 firearms. Other hot spots are French Island in Western Port Bay and Harrow, in the Wimmera. Police figures also show: UP to 200 (75 per cent) of all pistols seized from criminals in the past three years had never been registered or could not be identified. FORTY-ONE of the 273 firearms seized were stolen. MORE than half the firearms used in "high end" armed robberies last year were pistols. FIFTEEN per cent of firearms seized from criminals were stolen weapons. The annual figures showed an increase of 62 per cent in robberies involving guns and a 15 per cent increase in assaults with a firearm. Detective Supt Brett Guerin, head of the force's serious crime division, reinforced the police strategy of "unremitting harassment" to deter the use of guns, particularly pistols. Supt Guerin described those involved in recent lawless behaviour in Melbourne's northwest suburbs as "peasants ... acting in a way they would in the foothills of their home country, shooting up the streets as if it's the wild west". "Instead of farming they rob people, or stand over them or sell dope - and they use firearms to enforce it," he said. "We can't just wait for these matters to be fully investigated and brought before the courts one or two years down the track. We've got to start making life difficult for these peanuts." The head of the force's licensing and registration division, Supt Russell Barrett, said shootings in Melbourne had emphasised the issue of illicit gun use. "I don't think the issues we're seeing are with the licensed shooters. The problem is not with the lawful weapons in the hands of lawful shooters," he said. "Our focus for the next 12-18 months will be to ensure that not only the right people get licences and access to guns, but to ensure that legal guns don't become illegal." Supt Barrett said police would be strong on regulating the practices of dealers and ensuring owners were storing firearms safely. He said he hoped a big drop in the number of firearms stolen - 142 in 2010-11 compared with 316 the previous year - was a reflection of more secure storage. Only 18 of the 302 guns reported stolen in Victoria in 2008-09 were recovered, the most recent Australia Institute of Criminology firearm theft statistics show. Pistols registered rose from just over 11,200 in June 2010 to 11,600 a year later. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 02:52:43 +0000 From: Trigger Mortis Subject: RE: 'Pistol packin' mama' gets permission to shoot intruder You are certainly correct that no one needs permission to protect their lives. However; that was a wise CYA (cover yer a$$) call she made, I think. Fortunately, she had time to make that call. Alan Harper alan__harper@hotmail.com SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM ************************* > Date: > From: mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca > To: cfdmod@bogend.ca > Subject: Re: 'Pistol packin' mama' gets permission to shoot intruder > > > Once again the media drops the ball. No one need "permission" to defend > their life or that of their child from an armed, violent assailant. The > "permission" is inherent with being human, and alive. > > -- > M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) > Rural Family Physician, > Sherbrooke, NS > > mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca > > "Hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst". ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 23:09:21 -0800 (PST) From: "bletchleypark@rogers.com" Subject: Re: Letter to the Prime Minister - Reclassification of ... I agree with Mr. Whatcott's position. The RCMP has no business re-classifying certain makes of firearms restricted or prohibited at their discretion. I find it incredible that no firearm advocacy group  has not raised the issue in any legal or political forum. There have been issues regarding the arbitrary and questionable actions of the RCMP with the seizure of starter pistols made by Zoraki as they claim that these pistols have the same frame as 'real' handguns.   The issue of China State Arms Norinco's bull-pup M-97 has also come under RCMP scrutiny. Now it is the AP-80 (an AK-47 look-alike) which was previously classified as restricted and is now being re-classified as prohibited. ( The firearm pictured in this article is actually an Armi Jager AP-74 -- an M-16 look-alike which still remains restricted).  The Liberals classified these firearms as restricted merely on the basis that they looked 'bad'. They are only 22. cal. semi-automatic rifles. They are no more dangerous than my Cooey 22. cal. semi. Cosmetics. Go figure.    I must correct Mr. Whatcott on one issue. The Armi Jager AP-74 is an excellent firearm with respect to function, reliability, accuracy and cost. I have owned such a firearm since they were first marketed in Canada in 1977. My only regret is that they are no longer available. Where are all the pro-gun groups? Where is all the indignation? Why the silence? The RCMP/Police forces must be held accountable for their actions. I have been personally victimized by this arbitrary and disturbing trend. I fought back and won on my own coin. No financial support. No moral support. No coverage of my victory. How many others are similarly targeted and abandoned/ignored by the firearms community. The "I'm alright, Jack" mentality permeates most gun groups. If law- abiding gun owners and organizations remain self serving, fractured and timid (castrated?) as they have shown themselves to be, then firearm ownership in Canada will somedy soon, and rightfully, be a thing of the past. Wake up!   Cheers, Peter  ________________________________ From: Dennis & Hazel Young To: cfdmod@bogend.ca Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 1969 7:00:00 PM Subject: Letter to the Prime Minister - Reclassification of Armi Jager... ... AP-80 rifle Bill Whatcott's letter to Prime Minister Stephen Harper - January 7, 2012 Re: Reclassification of Armi Jager AP-80 rifle http://freenorthamerica.ca/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8743#p20586 ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #874 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)