Cdn-Firearms Digest Saturday, January 21 2012 Volume 14 : Number 895 In this issue: Re: VOICE OF THE OUTDOORS by Murray Martin Re: Gun barrel explodes on firing range Please read and refresh your memory. Henderson v. Canada Re: Armi Jager AP80 .22 calibre rifles Gun smugglers get hefty sentences Re: "...lawyer Solomon Friedman looks at the legal issues..." Fwd: Fw: Pee on aTaliban "Man. Minister urges harsher prison time"-SP "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #894 Re: CBC - Kootenay deer cull faces international opposition Mr. Harper's "gun control" policy: [none] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 23:32:29 -0700 From: 10x@telus.net Subject: Re: VOICE OF THE OUTDOORS by Murray Martin At , you wrote: > >Thanks for your reply Jim. I have seen starter pistols laying around with >no regards to safety. Having worked in enforcement I have also seen such >starter pistols drilled out. > >I fought the proposal of the registry back Trudeau's days and being a >weekly outdoors columnist for over 47 years( as well as working for one of >the worlds largest firearm manufacturers).Most proposals at the very >beginning of the registry were not connected to actual crime and placed >restrictive laws on honest law abiding people and not the criminal. But >there are safety factures involved in this starter pistol. Before >judgement, have you seen this starter pistol in mention? It can be very >easy to drill this particular starter pistol out to fire long rifle 22 >ammo.The pistol in mention is made of far better material than most >starter pistols. It looks exactly like a real handgun and is capable of a >2 minute alteration to become a real deadly hand gun. > >I suggest too many are single focused and not looking at single issues of >which this starter pistol is. A safety issue here is that such starter >pistols, strong enough to actually be drilled out and fully capable of >firing a 22 cal bullet, should be on the restricted list. Then only >qualified people could get such firearms. > > >Have you actually seen this particular starter pistol? In this case I >vote on the side of safety........and suggest this is an issue outside of >the long gun registry. . This is two completely different issues. >The starter pistol, made in Italy has been turned over to the RCMP > >Murray Martin The issue with the prohibited blank firing device is not whether it can be converted to a gun but is that a nameless civil servant has assumed powers granted to the Governor in Council under section 117 of the firearms act and declared the device prohibited. The bottom line, the blank firing pistol has a chamber that is integral with the frame. There is no way of replacing any part on the frame or adding a factory made barrel to the frame to get it to fire a bullet. There is a similar looking gun that fires a rubber bullet from a cartridge which is 9mm but is not interchangable with the 9mm Luger. No part from that gun can be attached to the frame of the blank gun to make it fire bullets. There is a claim that the barrel can be bored out to accept 9mm luger ammo. There are two problems with this concept. 1) the portion of the frame that gets bored to accept a 9mm luger cartrige is not strong enough to Contain the pressure and 2) there is no locking mechanism and the slice will fail with the pressure generated from a 9mm luger cartridge. Finally there is no way that a chamber of 9 mm can be drilled smaller to accept a 22 rimfire - and if a chamber insert was used the firing pin would not likely strike the rimfire primer. We can safely conclude that a bureaucrat assumed the power granted the Governor in Council to proclaim a signaling device prohibited. If those charged with enforcing the laws are not going to follow the law, who is? Proclaiming objects prohibited with no means in law to do so is right up there with selling cociane ouf the evidence locker.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 23:35:43 -0700 From: 10x@telus.net Subject: Re: Gun barrel explodes on firing range At 07:24 PM 16/01/2012 -0600, you wrote: >Having reloaded thousands of 12 gauge shotshells in my 25 some odd years of >reloading, I would bet that it was an obstruction in the barrel of the >shotgun. I reload all the time pressing the limits on the powder charge >mainly to give me a little edge in knocking down clay targets. When I shoot >tournaments, I have to use factory rounds so I don't get disqualified for >using to much pressure thus gaining an advantage over other shooters. I have >found that my percentage of targets hit has gone up considerably since doing >this., mainly because I am more confidant in my shooting. > >I have an old shotgun hanging on my wall in my "gun room" that had some snow >in the barrel when someone fired it. You would not believe what it did to >that barrel. It is peeled back like a banana. I am glad no one was hurt >during firing, > >My 2 cents worth > >Scottie "it peeled back like a banana". Take a look at the photos, this gun failed at the breech and peeled forward. A bore obstruction would cause a failure at the point of the obstruction, not from the breech forward. There was something very wrong with the load - it may not even have been gun powder in there but a very fast explosive. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 22:36:22 -0800 From: Len Miller Subject: Please read and refresh your memory. Begin forwarded message: > From: "Chris Gilmore" > Date: January 20, 2012 6:25:01 PM PST (CA) > To: ,,etc. > Subject: Please read and refresh your memory. > > I think it's high time for a "refresher" for the "oldtimers" and > some information for the "newbies". > My question to you all is; are you people of integrity or not? > Ignoring the question will not make it > go away. What about this promise that was made? Please just answer the > question. > Thank you, > Chris Gilmore > > Rest assured Garry Breitkreuz will never betray the firearms > community. > > The Promise of the Conservatives while Serving as the Loyal Opposition > > “There is only one to fix this mess and that is to elect a > Conservative > government. We promise to repeal Bill C-68 and return the gun laws to > the way they were before 1995. Then I personally promise that I will > start the task of fixing all the flaws in federal firearm laws by > requiring that they be subjected to a public safety test administered > by the Auditor General of Canada. My proposal includes a sunset clause > on all gun control laws that have been proven by the Auditor General > not to be cost effective at reducing the criminal use of firearms and > improving public safety.” > > Garry Breitkreuz, M.P. Yorkton-Melville (SK) > Conservative Firearms Critic > House of Commons > 08 July 2005 Len sez: You'll notice . . there was no mention of working on the distraction of long guns?? That Candice in her deception, made a big fuss, pretending it was the farmers and the hunters, who were offended . . managing a deception of her own by ignoring, if you will. the deaths of Bob and Bonnie Dagenais , who were shotgunned while phoning the QPP and died. I am sure that Ray Michaelson, Vancouver, and Bob and Bonnie, were NOT the only deaths . . ( IF IT SAVES ONE LIFE ?) TO HAVE OCCURRED since C-68 . . You see, our esteemed MP's, that denied the means of self protection all 'we' city people can do is die . . ( nicely done, Stevie ! ) You have 'backbenched' every REFORMER . . or caused them to recant thereby betraying the hundreds of thousands who believed your perfidy . . Harper: First week of his MAJORITY comment . THE THINGS WE COULD NOT DO, WHEN WE WERE A MINORITY . WE MAY NOT DO . . NOW THAT WE ARE A MAJORITY . . deception complete . . of course, he meant the recanting/betrayal of C-68 . . promise . . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, January 21, 2012 9:35 am From: "Dennis R. Young" Subject: Henderson v. Canada Re: Armi Jager AP80 .22 calibre rifles KATEY'S RIGHTS AND FREEDOM BULLETIN #72 - JANUARY 21, 2012 http://kateysfirearmsfacts.com/Bulletin/ From the Courts: Henderson v. Canada (Attorney General), 2011 ONCA 696 This is the court decision that prompted the RCMP's recent crackdown on those nasty firearm owners and their Armi Jager AP80 .22 calibre rifles http://rfb.s3.amazonaws.com/Rights-and-Freedoms-Bulletin-No-72.pdf ------------------------------ Date: Sat, January 21, 2012 10:02 am From: "Dennis R. Young" Subject: Gun smugglers get hefty sentences THE OBSERVER - JANUARY 21, 2012 Gun smugglers get hefty sentences By NEIL BOWEN, The Observer http://www.theobserver.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3444062 A Toronto-area trio caught smuggling four handguns across the border at Walpole Island have been sentenced to jail terms ranging from three to five years. Dwayne Jahton Blair, 31, of Toronto, wife Claudiah N.J. Gooden, 31, of Markham, and Aubrey L. Taylor, 27, of Scarborough, were convicted of numerous gun offences including possessing guns in a vehicle, importation, transportation, and possession of guns for the purpose of transferring to another person. All three were sentenced Friday in Sarnia court following 12 days of trial spread over eight months. The mandatory minimum sentence for some of the offences was three years. Blair was sentenced to five years and two months, including 14 months of pre-sentencing custody, because of a criminal record that included a prior weapons offence. Blair was also convicted of resisting arrest. Walpole Island police stopped the vehicle following a short pursuit, and Blair, Taylor, Gooden and a First Nations man were in the vehicle. Gooden was sentenced to 40 months, including 18 months of pre-sentence custody. Taylor was sentenced to three years, including three months of pre-sentence custody. Taylor and Gooden had no criminal records. Assistant Crown attorney Aniko Coughlan said significant penitentiary terms were warranted for exceptionally serious crimes that endangered the public. The four handguns including two semi-automatic pistols and two revolvers that could have resulted in the death or injury of innocent people, said Justice Deborah Austin. She added it's troubling that Walpole Island is being used as an illegal entry point, but that the small Walpole Island Police Service met the challenge. A Walpole officer received a tip that a red car was involved in smuggling on Squirrel Island, which is connected to Walpole by a bridge. It is routinely used for smuggling, an officer said. A Walpole Island First Nations man was offered $150 by the Toronto trio to meet an American on Harsens Island, which is in the U.S., and bring back some boxes. The Walpole Island man, who was a key Crown witness, still has charges before the court. He told the court he borrowed a boat for the trip to Harsens Island and didn't know what was in the boxes. Some of them clinked as if they held bottles, but a third box was lighter, he said. Police found the guns in the lighter box wrapped in a pink shirt containing Gooden's DNA. Gooden testified she had no knowledge of the guns but had purchased the liquor in the other two boxes during a visit to Atlanta, Georgia. All three pled guilty to violating the Customs Act by smuggling the liquor into Canada. The 18 bottles were vodka flavoured with ice wine and worth as much a $700 but not available in Canada. Federal prosecutor Michael Robb questioned the credibility of Gooden's testimony about the liquor, saying it could have been more easily obtained in Detroit or Buffalo. Gooden testified First Nations people must have loaded the guns into the vehicle's trunk. Austin said it made no sense that the First Nations man would knowingly load guns into a stranger's vehicle. Gooden testified it was a coincidence the Atlanta man arrived at Harsens Island on the same day as she was on Walpole. The trio went to Walpole to pick up two strippers for a party they were arranging at Toronto strip club, an explanation Robb called flimsy. During a previous trip to Atlanta Gooden attended a gun show and Canada Border Service Agency officers found photos of guns on her cell phone. Gooden was instrumental in the crimes and Taylor played an active but peripheral role, said Austin, who convicted the trio in December but delayed sentencing until Friday to allow for preparation of pre-sentence reports. After Austin left the courtroom, Gooden said loudly, "This is bull- - - -" and began crying. nbowen@theobserver.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 09:24:05 -0700 (MST) From: geoff_stokes@telus.net Subject: Re: "...lawyer Solomon Friedman looks at the legal issues..." Phoned Telus (Optic TV) I'd have to change from DSL to Satellite. I changed from Shaw to Telus; they didn't provide Wild TV and Christian stations. Now I seem to be getting a similar run-around from Telus. Strange they'll provide Sun network on Satellite but not on Optic. Yeah...I'd like to have Sun news; however, there's a cost an installation hassle. Cheers, G.E. Stokes. Jan 21, 2012 07:19:12 AM, cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca wrote: If you like having Brian Lilley speak up against government abuse then subscribe to SunnewsTV. If it is not offered by your cable/satellite company demand that they carry it. Encourage your friends, relatives and hunting organizations members to sign up, too. All the other media either support civilian disarmament or are silent or cheer for the minimalist tidbit being offered by the Harper Conservatives. http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/featured/prime-time/867432237001/way-off-target/1405292831001 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 08:51:23 -0800 From: Todd Birch Subject: Fwd: Fw: Pee on aTaliban From an American friend ..... Subject: Pee on aTaliban: *Pee on a Crucifix, you're an "artist" Pee on The American Flag, you're a "Constitutionalist" Pee on a Police Car, you're a "Freedom Loving 99%er" Pee on the Taliban POS That Just Tried To Kill You & Your Fellow Marines, you're a Villain. **Sure is a PISS POOR administration we have running this great country! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 11:05:22 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: "Man. Minister urges harsher prison time"-SP "Man. Minister urges harsher prison time" Actually, it's not harsher time it is more time the Minister in the NDP Manitoba is requesting to Ottawa to add. Home invasions, car jacking and the use of knives is his focus. He's playing the same political game as the Conservatives have done. Robbery is a serious crime, as is robbery with weapons or violence are aggravating factors, maiming and murder. That is ignored by the courts as the Liberals changed sentencing priorities, lowering public safety to the bottom of the list. But what about baseball bats? Or 2X4s? Or tire irons? This endless game adds item by item to the list ignoring the real injury suffered by the citizen victim. This game is like the one listing firearms use as an aggravating factor, it's a cheap political trick. It's the injury, the maiming, the death which is the crime, not the method. With a maybe 5% chance of successful intervention by the police, the right of the citizen not to be a victim is purposely ignored again and again. Politicians don't worry about in defending the rights of citizens and without citizen's demanding their rights be respected, they never will. Or and is there a single identifying factor to most of the crime in Manitoba? Yes, but that truth would be politically incorrect so the cultural factors are ignored. http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/minister+urges+harsher+prison+time/6030385/story.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 09:19:17 -0800 From: Todd Birch Subject: "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross Inspired by the posting of Clive Edwards re: this book, I went to the local library to check it out. Unable to find a copy, the librarian researched it for me. She found TWO copies in the entire province! One in Greater Victoria and the other in Burns Lake, of all places. That one is on it's way to me. Considering the crap on the book shelves, this must be one of those books some people do not want us to read. I wonder how they missed these two copies? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 12:19:21 -0500 From: Walter Martindale Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #894 Just sent to Garry Breitkreuz's e-mail address… Hello Mr. Breitkreuz, When the legislative travesty known as C-68 1995, The Firearms Act, was enacted, I was hunting and competing in target shooting in Saskatchewan. I recognized it as bad law when I first read the draft legislation, and it turns out that it is, indeed, bad law. The law is unjust, makes criminals of people who commit no REAL crime, and has only been abused by bureaucrats and by the RCMP. But you know that, as indicated by the text from which I quote, below: "Rest assured Garry Breitkreuz will never betray the firearms community. The Promise of the Conservatives while Serving as the Loyal Opposition "There is only one to fix this mess and that is to elect a Conservative government. ___We promise to repeal Bill C-68 and return the gun laws to the way they were before 1995.___ Then I personally promise that I will start the task of fixing all the flaws in federal firearm laws by requiring that they be subjected to a public safety test administered by the Auditor General of Canada. My proposal includes a sunset clause on all gun control laws that have been proven by the Auditor General not to be cost effective at reducing the criminal use of firearms and improving public safety. "Garry Breitkreuz, M.P. Yorkton-Melville (SK) Conservative Firearms Critic House of Commons 08 July 2005" Well? Walter Martindale, M.P.E., ChPC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 12:23:37 -0500 From: "mred" Subject: Re: CBC - Kootenay deer cull faces international opposition What these so called environmentalists dont realize is the fact that the deer become stunted and weak because there isnt enough food for them to survive .: as well they eat the new flora that springs up every year denying that flora to survive as well so that their habitat becomes essentailly a wasteland of mature growth with no young growth to replace the dying older flora...ed/on - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis R. Young" To: Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 7:05 PM Subject: CBC - Kootenay deer cull faces international opposition > CBC - Kootenay deer cull faces international opposition > CBC News Last Updated: Jan 19, 2012 2:52 PM PT > http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/01/19/bc-opposition-deer-cull.html > > Opposition is growing to a large-scale deer cull in B.C.'s East Kootenay. > Three communities have committed to eliminating as many as 225 urban deer; > Cranbrook has finished, Kimberley is in the midst of its cull, and > Invermere > is next on the list. But Invermere Mayor Gerry Taft says opposition the > deer > kill is growing, as is the number of nasty letters he's receiving at City > Hall. "Most of them are coming from out of the community and region - from > as far as Europe. Then there are local groups that are forming and local > opposition as well." > > One of those local opposition groups is a new organization called the > Humane > Treatment of Urban Wildlife. Led by Colleen Bailey of Cranbrook, the group > hopes to halt the cull before it reaches Invermere. > Bailey admits her group started late and is playing catchup, but she says > the deer cull is hard on people as well as the animals. "The method being > employed is inhumane. It is also stressful to the residents of each > community," said Bailey. > > A contractor has been hired to trap the deer. Any caught deer are then > killed with a bolt gun similar to the tool used for killing cattle in > slaughterhouses. The three municipalities decided to cull their urban deer > after hundreds of the animals became habituated to living within city > limits. The animals have caused car accidents, brazenly graze on flowers, > and have even attacked pets and people. > > With files from the CBC's Bob Keating ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 12:55:38 -0600 From: Edward Hudson Subject: Mr. Harper's "gun control" policy: Mr. Harper's "gun control" policy: "all firearms owners will continue to be required to ... possess a valid firearms licence." On 20-Jan-12, at 8:00 PM, Chris Gilmore wrote: > Here we have in writing the Conservative line on Gun Control. It seems > to be different than we were led to believe. There was a promise to > repeal C-68 which they are not addressing. Everybody needs to get real > "vocal" to the media and the Conservative Government. Don't let up on > our search for "integrity" in politics. A PROMISE IS A PROMISE! Minister of Public Safety Ottawa, Canada K1A 0P8 Jan 18 2002 Dear concerned citizen: Thank you for your correspondence regarding Bill C-19, Ending the Long- gun Registry Act, which seeks to fulfill our Government's long- standing commitment to abolish the long-gun registry. It was my pleasure to introduce Bill C-19 on October 25, 2011. Like previous Bills to repeal the long-gun registry that did not pass into law, this legislation will remove the requirement for individuals to register non-restricted firearms. It ensures that existing records in the long-gun registry are permanently destroyed to prevent their future use. To be clear, our Government supports effective gun control and we are steadfast in our resolve to combat the criminal use of firearms. However, we have never supported the long-gun registry which the Government believes to be ineffective and wasteful. Under Bill C-19 legislation, registration of restricted and prohibited firearms, including all handguns and automatic firearms, would continue to be maintained by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) Canadian Firearms Program. In addition, all firearms owners will continue to be required to undergo background check, pass a safety training course, and possess a valid firearms licence. Our Government has also targeted resources to strengthen the screening of first-time firearms licence applicants. As a result, over 20,000 first-time firearms licence applicants will be interviewed annually, along with references for the applicant, to help prevent guns from getting into the hands of those who are legally ineligible. The Public Safety Portfolio is also working in partnership with provinces and territories, as well as the United States, to combat the criminal use of firearms. For example, the RCMP-led National Weapons Enforcement Support Team, a joint forces operation, is working with local law enforcement to combat the illegal movement and use of firearms. As well, Canada continues to work with the United States through the Integrated Border Enforcement Team program to combat cross- border criminal activity, which includes smuggling of illicit firearms into Canada. Together, we are also pursuing new and innovative joint border law enforcement programs, such as Shiprider, to better respond to the evolving methods and tactics employed by transnational crime groups. Our Government is proud to fulfill its long-standing commitment to repeal the long-gun registry and we look forward to focusing more of our efforts and resources towards measures that target the criminal use of firearms. Thank you again for taking the time to write. Yours sincerely, [signed] Vic Toews, P.C., Q.C., M.P. http://www.cufoa.ca/articles/primeminister/pm_18_jan_2012.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 11:37:27 -0800 (PST) From: "bletchleypark@rogers.com" Subject: [none] Subject: Hallelujiah Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca   To all our supporters, we thank you.   At long last our travails with the "gun police" have finally reached a successful conclusion. Grudgingly our stolen firearms were returned to  us yesterday with little fanfare. One minor obstacle, which only proved how useless the registry really was, was the police error of classifying both our Anschutz 22.cal single shot rifle and our Ruger Mini-14 as restricted. This was corrected swiftly by our lawyer.   We had assumed incorrectly, that since Calvin Martin QC., was unable, due to health issues, to continue his practise, that we would be unable to find a qualified lawyer in the GTA. Ed Burlew is well known in our circles as a competent lawyer, however, Mr. Burlew is more interested in publicity and a very generous retainer than in helping the 'little guy.' The lawyer that we retained has qualities that we admire in an individual: knowledge, integrity, honesty and last but not least, compassion and respect for his clients. We were informed politely and quickly of all progress within the structure of our case. We have only the highest praise for this man who fought with every articulate skill afforded him to overcome the suffocating bureaucracy that one has to hurdle over in order to claim ones rights as a citizen. His name is Patrick Floyd. He's our hero. If any of you out there on this Digest, for whatever reason, find yourself in a legal quagmire over firearms or any other legal issue, we cannot recommend this gentleman more. He understands the nefarious nature of the Firearms Act and loathes it. He enjoys the shooting sport himself in most of its various disciplines and is a qualified pilot. What's not to like?   Mr. Floyd Rohmer Fenn Thornhill, Ontario ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V14 #895 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)