From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #27 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, April 2 2012 Volume 15 : Number 027 In this issue: [Hansard] Thursday, March 29th - Oral Questions My letter to National Post Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime Re: My letter to National Post Self-defense killings in US nearly doubled from 2000-2010... Letter to the National Post: "firearms are legal to own"? Exclusive - Palin to Couric: 'Game On' killing in Kelowna by RCMP RE: Mountie loses firearm on crowded B.C. Ferry Calgary Herald Column: "...await all the facts before we convict." Compare . . if you will . . Canadian Firearms Advisory Committee discusses firearms future ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:51:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: [Hansard] Thursday, March 29th - Oral Questions http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Pub=hansard&Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=41&Ses=1&DocId=5488801&File=0#OOB-7211696 41st PARLIAMENT, 1st SESSION EDITED HANSARD • NUMBER 102 CONTENTS Thursday, March 29, 2012 ORAL QUESTIONS Public Safety + - Ms. Judy Foote (Random—Burin—St. George's, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we have learned that despite the government's claim of caring about community safety, on March 7 the hon. member for Yorkton-Melville told a classroom of Ottawa high school students, some as young as 14, that all Canadians should carry firearms and girls in particular should be armed to protect themselves from sexual assault. Does the Minister of Public Safety agree with his colleague's extreme position that school children should be carrying loaded guns into schoolyards? Is that the position of the Government of Canada? Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Public Safety, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I can indicate our Conservative government does not support treating law-abiding hunters, farmers and sports shooters as criminals. That member in fact has specifically targeted those law- abiding Canadians. Our government has said that we will repeal the long gun registry and focus on those who actually commit crimes. That is what our government stands for. * * * ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 13:38:19 -0600 From: "Joe Gingrich" Subject: My letter to National Post letter sent, unpublished I read Talking about self-defence isn't 'promoting gun violence', by Matt Gurney, MARCH 30, 2012 Self defence is not only within the criminal code it is a Canadian civil right. It goes further. Canadians also attain the right to "have arms for their defence" from the very same source as do the Americans, section 7 of the English Bill of Rights of 1689. (1) While our right to armed self defence is suppressed by the government of the day, it is the best way known to protect oneself from mortal assault by violent criminals or beasts. That's why policemen and women carry firearms. To employ the right, however, is an ethical issue. If Ms. Sakisheway, her daughter or Liberal MP Judy Foote do not wish to use their right of self defence to protect themselves, their family, or their loved ones from lethal attack, they have a moral right to do so. They are not required by any law to engage their right to defend themselves. If they wish to wait the few minutes or longer for the police to arrive on the crime scene, when only a split second counts, they have the prerogative to do so. However, these ladies do not have authority to keep Canadians ignorant about their right to self defence and proper ways to protect themselves when life threatening situations arise. Yours in Tyranny, Joe Gingrich source: 1. "may have arms for their defence," The 1689 Bill of Rights http://www.duhaime.org/Law_museum/uk-billr.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 22:04:38 -0700 From: Len Miller Subject: Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime You Tube Myth: Gun Control Reduces Crime . ( open it) When you are having your door kicked in . . at 2 AM . . . Which would YOU rather have . . . a telephone or a gun ?? Please reference Bob and Bonnie Dagenais Students mourn murdered Ottawa teachers Last Updated: Saturday, November 30, 2002 | 10 ... More than 1,000 people crowded into an Ottawa church ... so many people's lives, and so did his wife, Bonnie." Bob Dagenais ... www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2002/11/30/teachers_funeral021130.html Bonnie was dialing police . . who were thirty minutes away All the cops could do was establish the TIME of death because they heard the shots fired . Government continues keeping its citizens in needless/avoidable jeopardy . . Is that why you were elected? Is this what you promised? Entends tu les chiens aboyer?? Len From Vancouver ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 07:47:17 -0600 From: Edward Hudson Subject: Re: My letter to National Post Re: My letter to National Post Thanks, Joe. On 31-Mar-12, at 1:38 PM, Joe Gingrich wrote: > >>> > However, these ladies do not have authority to keep Canadians > ignorant about their right to self defence and proper ways to > protect themselves when life threatening situations arise. > > 1. "may have arms for their defence," The 1689 Bill of Rights > http://www.duhaime.org/Law_museum/uk-billr.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, April 1, 2012 8:36 am From: "Dennis R. Young" Subject: Self-defense killings in US nearly doubled from 2000-2010... ... statistics show NEW YORK POST - APRIL 1, 2012 Self-defense killings in US nearly doubled from 2000-2010, statistics show THE WALL STREET JOURNAL/NEWSCORE - Last Updated: 7:06 AM, April 1, 2012 http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/self_defense_killings_in_us_nearly_aQicVMrF1TAP3Sv3BgqfCO?utm_medium=rss&utm_content=National At a time when the overall US homicide rate is declining, more civilians are killing each other and claiming self-defense -- a trend that is most pronounced in states with new "stand your ground" laws. These laws, which grant people more leeway to attack and even kill someone who is threatening them, are attracting scrutiny following February's controversial killing of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Florida by a neighborhood watchman. Florida has one of the broadest self-defense laws of the 25 states with some version of a "stand your ground" principle. So-called justifiable homicides nearly doubled from 2000 to 2010, the most recent data available, when 326 were reported, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of crime statistics from all 50 states. Over that same 11-year period, total killings averaged roughly 16,000 a year, according to the state figures, which the Journal obtained from the FBI and from Florida. The data on justifiable homicides and their relationship to "stand your ground" laws has not been rigorously studied, according to criminal scientists, and it leaves some questions unanswered. For instance, does a rise in justifiable homicides reflect killings that otherwise would not have happened? Or does it reflect the fact that more killings might naturally fall into the "justifiable" category, if a new law broadens that category? Still, the numbers provide a rich snapshot of justifiable-homicide characteristics over the 11-year period. In about 60 percent of justifiable-homicide cases in which the relationship between victim and killer was known, the pair were strangers. This differs sharply from nonjustifiable cases, where more than three-fourths of victims knew their killers. Firearms were used in more than 80 percent of justifiable cases. In nonjustifiable cases, guns were used about 65 percent of the time. The average age of victims in justifiable cases was 30; in nonjustifiable cases, the average was 32. By either yardstick, the February killing of 17-year-old Martin was an outlier. The death of Martin, a black teen, is driving a widespread debate about the role of race. The nationwide data show that in three-quarters or more of all killings, "justifiable" or otherwise, the killer and victim were of the same race. Proportionally, blacks are more often the victims of homicide. For decades, many states embraced the "Castle Doctrine," the principle that a person's home is their castle and they are generally within their rights to defend themselves, even with deadly force, against intruders. A wave of "stand your ground" laws, including Florida's in 2005, expanded the doctrine to include places outside the home. Five of the states that enacted "stand your ground" laws during the past decade -- Kansas, Alabama, Mississippi, Montana and West Virginia -- reported no significant change in justifiable homicides. In Michigan, which passed its law in 2006, they fell. Overall, the figures show the sharpest increase in justifiable homicides occurred after 2005, when Florida and 16 other states passed the laws. While the overall homicide rates in those states stayed relatively flat, the average number of justifiable cases per year increased by more than 50 percent in the decade's latter half, the data show. In Texas and Georgia, such cases nearly doubled and in Florida, they nearly tripled. Meanwhile, in states that saw no change in their self-defense laws, justifiable homicides reported to the FBI stayed nearly flat after a slight uptick in the middle decade. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, April 1, 2012 8:49 am From: "Dennis R. Young" Subject: Letter to the National Post: "firearms are legal to own"? Note: The Letters Editor has forwarded this e-mail to Mr. Gurney. - -----Original Message----- From: Dennis R. Young [mailto:dhyoung@shaw.ca] Sent: March-31-12 10:07 AM To: 'Letters (National Post) Subject: Matt Gurney's Full Comment: Talking about self-defence isn't 'promoting gun violence' http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/03/30/matt-gurney-talking-about-self-defence-isnt-promoting-gun-violence/ Dear Mr. Russell: Please pass on my compliments to Matt Gurney for his Full Comment column: Talking about self-defence isn't 'promoting gun violence' (National Post, March 30, 2012,4:39 PM ET). He ends his column saying "firearms are legal to own." If that is true, why does the government and the police still treat millions of honest, trustworthy, upright gun owners as more dangerous than the 324,723 persons prohibited by the courts from owning firearms? For example, licensed gun owners who fail to report their change of address within thirty days could go to jail for up to two years while those prohibited from possessing firearms face no such requirement or criminal penalty. Also, the homes and businesses of licensed gun owners are subject to "inspections" but not those convicted criminals on the prohibited from owning firearms list. And pity those unfortunate gun owners who have let their firearms licenses expire or forgot to get a license in the first place because they wait nervously for the police (and sometimes even a SWAT team) to arrive to search their homes, seize and destroy their legally acquired property and charge them with unlawful possession of a firearm under Sections 91 or 92 of the Criminal Code of Canada. I say "unfortunate" because even though they had no criminal intent and have not committed an unsafe or violent act, they could go to jail for two, five or even ten years simply for failing to get a piece of paper from the government. Thanks, Dennis R. Young Calgary, Alberta ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 10:16:36 -0600 From: "Joe Gingrich" Subject: Exclusive - Palin to Couric: 'Game On' http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/03/31/sarah-to-katie-game-on Exclusive - Palin to Couric: 'Game On' by Alexander Marlow When news broke that Katie Couric will be filling in for Robin Roberts next week on ABC's "Good Morning America," the country yawned. Or, at least we did, until we learned that NBC plans to pit "The Rogue Warrior" against "The Perky One": Sarah Palin will be guest-hosting "Today" this Tuesday. NBC's decision to seat the former Alaska Governor-turned-multimedia star in their anchor chair will likely prove to be a fruitful one. Since coming onto the national scene in 2008, Palin has become one of the most charismatic figures in conservative America and will likely bring "Today" an entirely different demographic of viewers. "I see this as a good opportunity to bring an independent, common-sense conservative perspective to NBC. We're 'going rogue' and infiltrating some turf for a day," Palin told Breitbart News. Palin and Couric will be squaring off, in a sense, for the first time since their controversial interview on the 2008 campaign trail. When Breitbart News asked for a comment about the fact that she will be competing with Couric, Gov. Palin responded simply: "Game on." Indeed. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 18:03:14 +0000 From: Trigger Mortis Subject: killing in Kelowna by RCMP Do you recall an incident, maybe 3 months ago, of a young newly married couple who argued? He locked her out of the house. She called police who entered the house and killed the husband. No comment was all the police would say. The incident is under investigation. So, any news on that one? I previously posted that I was sure she didn't want the police to come over and kill her husband. Maybe he was drunk and woke up and threatened the police. Who knows, since the police are not talking and they are the only survivors of the incident. Has anybody heard any news? Alan Harper alan__harper@hotmail.com SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 14:09:18 -0400 From: "Patrick Warner" Subject: RE: Mountie loses firearm on crowded B.C. Ferry That is all well and good, but what inquiring minds are dying to know is "In what manner did the Firearms Registry assist police in their investigation?" and "Has this officer been taken into custody, as any private citizen most surely would have been?" and "What will this officer learn, when his sentence in the RCMP disciplinary system amounts to probably no more than a loss of one day's leave or equivalent, instead of the 4 year mandatory sentence for a firearms offense for a private citizen under the Criminal Code of Canada?"... Finally, RCMP officers are issued with the Smith & Wesson Model 5946 double action only 9mm pistol. It was built to RCMP specifications. Senior officers don't usually carry a pistol although former Commissioner Bill Elliott seemed fond of doing so... - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, March 31, 2012 11:17 am From: "Dennis R. Young" Subject: Mountie loses firearm on crowded B.C. Ferry THE VANCOUVER PROVINCE - MARCH 31, 2012 Mountie loses firearm on crowded B.C. Ferry By Mike Raptis, The Province http://www.theprovince.com/news/Mountie+loses+firearm+crowded+Ferry/6388622/story.html An RCMP member has landed himself in hot water after his loaded service pistol was allegedly lost and found in a crowded B.C. Ferry cafeteria on the morning of March 21. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, April 1, 2012 12:31 pm From: "Dennis R. Young" Subject: Calgary Herald Column: "...await all the facts before we convict." CALGARY HERALD - APRIL 1, 2012 Outrage comes easy after teen's death By Kathleen Parker http://www.calgaryherald.com/life/Parker+Outrage+comes+easy+after+teen+death/6393171/story.html There are so many appalling aspects to the Trayvon Martin case that it's hard to find a permanent home for outrage. Most appalling, obviously, is the fatal shooting of an unarmed 17-year-old who was targeted by a 28-yearold volunteer neighbourhood watchman. George Zimmerman thought Martin seemed "suspicious," and followed him for a while before Martin allegedly attacked him. What really happened is anyone's guess, since Martin isn't here to tell his side of the story, and there were no witnesses to the shooting. There's audio of Zimmerman calling 911 to report his concerns about Martin. There's grainy video of Zimmerman arriving at the police station not looking, by some appraisals, sufficiently battered to corroborate his tale of being attacked. Also appalling is the presumed racial motivation. Given that Martin was armed only with iced tea and a bag of Skittles - and given that his suspicious behaviour seems to have hinged primarily on the fact that he was wearing a hoodie - it's easy to see why some have concluded that race was a factor, though not only blacks wear hoodies. Would Zimmerman have found a fellow Hispanic suspicious under the same circumstances? A white male? We don't know, but we do know that Zimmerman and his wife mentored two African-American children, hardly the actions of hardened racists. Add to the "appalling" roster the growing congregation of usual suspects crowing, profiling and politicizing the case. From movie stars to a congressman who wore a hoodie on the House floor - the tragedy has become a cause celebre. A month later, the hoodie has become a symbol of solidarity against institutional racism. That we all want justice for Martin should be a foregone assumption. But also assumed should be the understanding that we await all the facts before we convict. Without knowing much of anything, we seem to have reached a consensus that this is a case of racially motivated violence. When President Barack Obama commented on the case, saying that if he had a son, he'd look like Trayvon, he set a narrative in motion from which there seems to be no retreat. Another appalling feature of this horrific event is the apparent attempt by some to paint a less-than-favourable portrait of Martin. It is true that early photos released of him showed a younger, more apple-cheeked version. More recent images reveal a youngster becoming a man - not quite as cuddly, but certainly no less attractive than other teens as they morph from child to adult. We've also learned that Martin used the Internet as many his age do. He used rough language and a handle that includes the N-word. He also apparently had been suspended from school for marijuana possession at the time of his death. It happens, but really, so what? It isn't wrong to try to learn more about the involved parties in an attempt to imagine how they might have interacted. But I can't fathom what these details have to do with Martin's death. A teen who smokes pot and plays tough guy on the Internet isn't necessarily going to punch a stranger in the nose. Isn't this something like pointing out that a rape victim was flirty and wore short skirts? What is likely is that both men scared each other for different reasons and one tragically overreacted. It is certainly plausible that Martin was terrified and acted accordingly. When he told his girlfriend by phone that someone was following him, she told him to run. Would that he had, but in his mind, Martin might have considered this a risky option. Apropos of Martin's less angelic side, parents of boys know that young males say and do dumb things that don't mean anything. They act cocky out of fear or talk trash to deflect. They wear hoodies or backward baseball caps or low-hanging jeans because these innocuous gestures of grandiosity are often the only weapons available to the unarmed. We all have our ways of telegraphing, "Don't mess with me (please)." That someone would interpret one such symbol or gesture as suspicious or threatening, prompting him ultimately to use lethal force, is the most appalling feature in a case in which outrage has too many homes. Kathleen Parker is a Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist with the Washington Post. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 12:24:08 -0700 From: Len Miller Subject: Compare . . if you will . . Reprint . . Jan 30 2009 Kudos to Jon Ferry, Province reporter who posted ''Restricting guns won't work'' Province 30 Jan 09 PA8 Loaded with dangerous assumptions, a gun banner ( Damian) puts conditions on gun ownership . ''Hunters own guns They'd just have to store them in a gun club and sign them put when they want to use them, with a plan of their intended activities -- as in "I'm going to Prince George to go hunting." YOU seem to have forgotten the attack on Western Canada Vaults where a thermal lance cut through into safety boxes, the most successful looting . in BC history. . How much safety, I ask, is inherent, when you are compelled to store your property somewhere else . .?? They still rob banks . . Damian are you listening? And, Damian Kettlewell, have you given much thought to defenceless citizens such as Ragnar (Ray) Michaelson ? Home invaded by an armed druggie, and immediately stabbed to death? Vancouver Champlain ? Palm print led police to murder suspect, court told [Mar 7, 2006] VANCOUVER - A palm print left on a roll of quarters taken from an east ... 23, was arrested a few blocks from the home of the murder victim, Ragnar ( Ray) Michaelson ... www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=9ecb... - Cached more results from canada.com » Woman convicted of murder in home invasion [Mar 24, 2006] VANCOUVER - The son of an 84-year-old Vancouver man stabbed to death in a ... convict 23-year-old Hannah Azak of the second-degree murder of Ragnar (Ray) Michaelson on ... Compare this to Bill Rose, Province item . . where he successfully repelled a similar event WITH a gun? Compare this to the poster children of gun free homes: Bob and Bonnie Dagenais who dialled 911 and died. Here, Damian, I'll speak slowly . . so as to make it easy for you . . d e f e n c e l e s s ? you die a r m e d you survive . . To each and every hoplophobe ( those who fear guns) no gun owner DEMANDS you possess a firearm . you wouldn't have a clue as to how to properly use it . . So, while you scream against the law-abiding's rights .. consider this: THEY have not gathered into frightened little bunches, and demand you give up your porn collection, your stamp collection, pencil nibs, or anything YOU find comfortable with, all they ask is for YOU to do to afford the same respect. THAT'S NOT ASKING TOO MUCH IS IT? (to the blind you write big . to the deaf you talk loud. ) PS . . since then Dennis Galloway, Port Alberni BC, legally and SUCCESSFULLY repelled an armed bandit. Similarly, Ian Thomson, Port Colbourne . ( Onterrible) saved his life . . but he was in Onterrible where they have yet to learn the distinction between IN USE and a stored firearm. Ian is presently in the throes of fighting a costly/idiot ( IMHO) prosecution . Len Miller Veteran ------------------------------ Date: Sun, April 1, 2012 6:12 pm From: "Dennis R. Young" Subject: Canadian Firearms Advisory Committee discusses firearms future From: cssa-cila-e-news-bounces@lists.cssa-cila.org Sent: April-01-12 6:00 PM To: Team CSSA E-NEWS Subject: [CSSA-CILA E-News] TEAM CSSA E-NEWS - Apr 1, 2012 CANADIAN SHOOTING SPORTS ASSOCIATION / CANADIAN INSTITUTE FOR LEGISLATIVE ACTION TEAM CSSA E-NEWS - Apr 1, 2012 COMMENTARY: Canadian Firearms Advisory Committee discusses firearms future The Minister of Public Safety convened the Canadian Firearms Advisory Committee this past week to examine the best policy direction for gun ownership in Canada. The Canadian Shooting Sports Association was represented at the three-day session by President Steve Torino, CILA Executive Director Tony Bernardo, and directors Linda Baggeley and Gerry Gamble. The agenda and discussions are strictly confidential, but there are a few things we can say. Not surprisingly, opinions differ on how quickly responsible firearms owners should urge the Conservative Party of Canada to kick-start more pro-gun legislation. Governments live to be re-elected and no administration will adopt policy that could jeopardize its own extension of tenure. It seems unlikely that no-holds-barred pro-firearms legislation would be a winner at the polls in three and a half years. The CSSA's steady progress with incrementalism has been paying off and we believe there will be bigger dividends in the future. But first, Canadians need to see the sky isn't falling in the wake of legislative change. We know that the anti-gun coalitions are poised to launch a propaganda campaign as soon as they catch a whiff of sudden widespread legislative change. There is no way to predict if the pros or cons would capture the hearts of the undecided mushy middle, but the recent NDP billboards bearing sinister black so-called “assault rifles” with 10-foot warnings are just a pale hint of what lies ahead. The risk of alienating the undecided is a gamble no government would take, and it is unreasonable to expect them to take that plunge. It is also most unwise to incite a propaganda war that you could lose. We have no intention of letting the Conservatives off the hook. But, if they recklessly force through a glut of legislation that turns undecided voters into anti's, the consequences could be disastrous for gun owners. Imagine a coalition Liberal/NDP government getting elected with a perceived mandate to take guns away from Canadians. We could be far worse off because the next anti-gun bill would be even more draconian than anything we have seen to date. Firearms owners need to appreciate that it's not worth the risk. CSSA feels we serve our members better by recognizing this risk and acting accordingly. Let's wish the Canadian Firearms Advisory Committee luck in helping the government choose a course that helps both gun owners and placates the undecided. This pie needs to be consumed one piece at a time, lest Canadians vicariously choke over an impatient government trying to swallow it in a single gulp. - -------- The CSSA is the voice of the sport shooter and firearms enthusiast in Canada. Our national membership supports and promotes Canada's firearms heritage, traditional target shooting competition, modern action shooting sports, hunting, and archery. We support and sponsor competitions and youth programs that promote these Canadian heritage activities. Joining the Canadian Shooting Sports Association is important and inexpensive! Be part of the solution. Help us oppose the anti-firearms groups that want to take away our sporting firearms. To join or donate to the CSSA, click here: http://www.cdnshootingsports.org/membership.html - ------ To subscribe to the CSSA-CILA E-NEWS, click: cssa-cila-e-news-subscribe@lists.cssa-cila.org http://lists.cssa-cila.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/cssa-cila-e-news - ------- CANADIAN SHOOTING SPORTS ASSOCIATION / CANADIAN INSTITUTE FOR LEGISLATIVE ACTION 116 Galaxy Blvd, Etobicoke ON M9W 4Y6 Phone 416-679-9959, Fax: 416-679-9910 Toll Free: 1-888-873-4339 E-Mail: info@cdnshootingsports.org Website www.cdnshootingsports.org ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #27 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)