From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #82 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, May 7 2012 Volume 15 : Number 082 In this issue: RE: "Queers & Pot Heads ..." Re: "Queers & Pot Heads ..." Germany's neo-registry Re: "Queers & Pot Heads ..." Re: Ontario is registering long guns: Firearms Lawyer backdoor registry LGR RE: "Queers & Pot Heads ..." Re: "Queers & Pot Heads ..." RE: "Queers & Pot Heads ..." RE: "Queers & Pot Heads ..." Undermining C-19 showing Ont. CFO Chris Wyatt outright ... female officer stabbed, B.C. court releases video-CBC Re: "Queers & Pot Heads ..." Firearms officers and our police state ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 03:46:18 -0700 From: "Clive Edwards" <45clive@telus.net> Subject: RE: "Queers & Pot Heads ..." Peter, Peter, Peter.... alcohol, not marijuana, is the intoxicant of choice for wife beaters, gay bashers, and all sorts of out of control, violent people. Drunks with guns are far more dangerous. Drunks are far more likely to be "down and out" than marijuana users. I have not led a sheltered life yet I have never seen a marijuana fueled rage; I don't believe such a condition can exist. Having said that, responsible individuals never consume more of their preferred intoxicant than they can handle and never mix guns and alcohol, or any other judgment altering substances for thatmatter. Speaking of law abiding firearms owners regularly breaking the law; wouldn't that also apply to LUFA (Law Abiding Unregistered Firearms Owners Association) and those three or four million firearms owners who never bothered to play the licensing/registration game? What is a REAL crime anyway? I think we all agree violence, theft and fraud are crimes. Under Canada's gun laws, who are the victims? All firearms owners, potential firearms owners and those who are protected by those who own firearms are the victims. Likewise with marijuana or even the other illegal drugs; who are the victims? Society? That is a collectivist concept that always leads to a loss of Rights, because only individuals can have Rights. If there are drug victims (and I don't mean the violence that may accompany the business of drugs which is purely a consequence of the illegal nature of the trade) it could only be the users and possibly their families, and then only if addiction is an issue, which it rarely is. Gambling and taking risks in business and personal life can also be addictions with the same negative results, yet these addictions are quite legal. I recall many years ago attending a libertarian event where the two featured speakers were Vin Suprynowicz and Marc Emery. I attended with a couple of other NFA members. Half the room were gun guys there to hear Vin. The other half were potheads there to hear Marc. At the beginning of the evening there was the natural discomfort of being strange bedfellows. As the evening progressed the two groups realized both issues were really the same - that of individual Rights being attacked by social engineers in government. Marc was sent to jail for acting on his beliefs, just as Bruce Montague went to jail for acting on his. Are we as individuals safer because these men went to jail? Only a twit would say we are. Clive > On the subject of potheads, though, I have to put on my 'bigot' hat. > The greater the number within this demographic who don't like guns > the better, If only for safety sake.  I wouldn't want to see a loaded > gun in the >hands of someone who may be 'tripping out', thank you > very much. > Besides they can't claim to be law abiding firearms owners if they > regularly break the law. Drugs/alcohol + guns = tragedy.    ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 10:25:48 -0500 From: Subject: Re: "Queers & Pot Heads ..." > Peter, Peter, Peter.... alcohol, not marijuana, is the intoxicant of > choice for wife beaters, gay bashers, and all sorts of out of control, > violent people. Drunks with guns are far more dangerous. Drunks are > far more likely to be "down and out" than marijuana users. I have not > led a sheltered life yet I have never seen a marijuana fueled rage; I > don't believe such a condition can exist. Having said that, responsible > individuals never consume more of their preferred intoxicant than they > can handle and never mix guns and alcohol, or any other judgment > altering substances for that matter. Well said Clive! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 May 2012 09:05:38 -0700 From: Todd Birch Subject: Germany's neo-registry When I hear about Germany considering the creation of a Firearms Registry, I get a chill .... and I'm not a Jew, Gypsy, Muslim or gay. This is proof positive that governments cannot or will not learn from history. Of ALL nations, this is not what one would expect from a nation only a few generations removed from the Nazi era and all it represented - - concentration camps, mass executions of "social undesirables", visible minorities and political dissenters. I thought that Germany already had a pretty tight grip on it's citizens regarding gun ownership. One can only imagine the hoops and new regs forthcoming under the "Neue Ordnung". It will be interesting to see if they will make use of the 1938 Nazi Gun laws as described in "Gun Control - Gateway To Tyranny" by Aaron Zelman. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 09:10:08 -0700 From: "Frederick Hoenisch" Subject: Re: "Queers & Pot Heads ..." As I get ready to take our family to a Sunday Brunch with two gay married men - I'll restrain myself from commenting on the gay generalizations from the original post. However, I have to make an attempt to demonstrate to Peter (Bletchleypark@rogers.com) how his specific "pothead" comments play right into the hands of the anti-gun community. It's another example of the 'divide and conquer' technique. - - Does Peter know any alcoholics/recovering alcoholics who shoot or hunt? Should they be banned from owning guns because they may 'fall off the wagon' and create a 'tragedy'? - - Does Peter know any 'hockey players' who have ever forgotten the rules about cross-checking? Should they be banned from owning guns because they may 'forget the rules' and create a 'tragedy'? - - Does Peter know any 'men' who have ever 'lost control with anger'? Should they be banned from owning guns because they may 'lose control' and create a 'tragedy'? - - Does Peter know any 'gun owners' who openly/discreetly violate gun laws as a protest to 'bad law'? Should they be banned from owning guns because they 'obviously have no respect for THE LAW' and might create a 'tragedy'? ... Eventually that list gets quite exhaustive and the antis just say, "You know, there are so many opportunities to create a tragedy with a gun - why don't we just ban guns and then we won't have any problems?" If you've agreed to any one of the above questions starting with, "Should they..." - then you've helped the antis win their cause. Perhaps it was wrong for me to single out Peter, in my response, as I have? I hope he understands why I did in my demonstration of this divide and conquer technique. I'm going out to brunch! Yours truly, Fred in Saanich. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 10:31:25 -0600 From: "Barry Snow" Subject: Re: Ontario is registering long guns: Firearms Lawyer Many spoke on this issue. This is what I did find. Under the act which is in the updated form, sec 23(2) appears to prohibit this action that the CFO's have downloaded on unsuspecting stores. I would think that the record in the CFOs ledger by the gun store would qualify as delegate or designated person retaining record of the request. If Vic Toews has no problem with the old ledgers being brought out again, he should be charged with contravening his own law. Barry http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/F-11.6/page-7.html#docCont 23.1 (1) A transferor referred to in section 23 may request that the Registrar inform the transferor as to whether the transferee, at the time of the transfer, holds and is still eligible to hold the licence referred to in paragraph 23(a), and if such a request is made, the Registrar or his or her delegate, or any other person that the federal Minister may designate, shall so inform the transferor. Marginal note: No record of request (2) Despite sections 12 and 13 of the Library and Archives of Canada Act and subsections 6(1) and (3) of the Privacy Act, neither the Registrar or his or her delegate nor a designated person shall retain any record of a request made under subsection (1). 2012, c. 6, s. 11. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 10:35:06 -0600 From: "Barry Snow" Subject: backdoor registry BTW. When that ledger is opened up for a purchaser to sign, at least one full page is there to be read by any close enough to the counter. Barry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 11:03:17 -0600 From: "Barry Snow" Subject: LGR Office of the Information and Privacy Commissioner (Calgary) Suite 2460, 801 6 Avenue SW Calgary AB, T2P 3W2 Phone: (403) 297-2728 Fax: (403) 297-2711 Toll Free: 1-888-878-4044 Dear Commissioner, Recently, I purchased a firearm for gopher control. The store, Wholesale Sports in Lethbridge opened the old style Chief Firearms Officer of Alberta ledger and had me sign my name next to the line where they had recorded my Firearms license number, make model and serial number and my name. This is in direct conflict with the new law as written and apparently at the direction of the CFO Alberta. The law states: (as on the Department of Justice web pages) "23.1 (1) A transferor referred to in section 23 may request that the Registrar inform the transferor as to whether the transferee, at the time of the transfer, holds and is still eligible to hold the licence referred to in paragraph 23(a), and if such a request is made, the Registrar or his or her delegate, or any other person that the federal Minister may designate, shall so inform the transferor. Marginal note: No record of request (2) Despite sections 12 and 13 of the Library and Archives of Canada Act and subsections 6(1) and (3) of the Privacy Act, neither the Registrar or his or her delegate nor a designated person shall retain any record of a request made under subsection (1). 2012, c. 6, s. 11." Even more disconcerting was seeing this book open on the counter in full view of other customers and the fact that about 30 lines are in plain view of each and every signer of said ledger. I am not sure how the information in this ledger is to be used but it appears to be a potential shopping list for criminals or others who do not wish well upon firearms owners. Sec 23 (2) expressly forbids this collection of data by delegate or designated person. Thanks for your attention, Barry Snow ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 13:42:41 -0400 From: Ed Sieb Subject: RE: "Queers & Pot Heads ..." As an ex-pot-head (1966 - 1979) I can confidently say that the very last thing a pot-heard wants to do is shoot guns while high. Listen to the Grateful Dead, watch the Marx Brothers, and eat, are far more likely interests! Shooting or fooling with guns? Not so much. Trust me on this! Ed Sieb ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 11:16:20 -0700 (PDT) From: "bletchleypark@rogers.com" Subject: Re: "Queers & Pot Heads ..." Clive, Clive, Clive..... I agree with you.....partly.   Notwithstanding the issue of range safety, I believe that prohibitions on the use of recreational drugs is faulty. This public policy fuels the destruction of the very fabric of society that it intends to protect. A casual observation of the carnage inflicted on the people of Mexico over drug distribution should indicate to most sane policy makers that the cure of prohibition is deadlier than the disease of illicit drug use.   As with all things institutionally questionable, just follow the money. The justice system is a great financial beneficiary of drug control policy. Police agencies profit immensely in both bloated budgets and over-the-top, sophisticate military-style equipment. Social aid organization and victim advocacy groups also have their faces entrenched in the publicly funded money trough. Each sub group within the entire matrix from street drug mules to end users and with all the government stakeholders and NGO's in between, profit from the status quo.   Comparisons between LUFA members 'criminality' and the drug using scofflaws is completely without logic or moral equivalence. Whatever your attitude may be towards the use of illicit drugs, you must agree that self interest and profit are the main motivators. However, members of LUFA and the many other non-law-abiding firearm owners are taking the moral high ground at great danger and sacrifice to themselves by refusing to come to heel to flawed government policy based solely on emotion and a distortion of facts for the sake of political expediency. Clive, you asked," Under Canada's gun laws, who are the victims?"  Everyone. Strangely enough even non-firearms owning Canadians. As long as one definable segment of society can be demonized and have rights, that are common to all others, subjugated, then all identifiable groups  are at risk of falling victim to future fiat policy designed to divide, conquer and control.  Drug control is much like gun control. It is not really about limiting access to those products. It's only about controlling the immense political profits and power that go along with it. Cheers, Peter    ________________________________ From: Clive Edwards <45clive@telus.net> To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2012 6:46:18 AM Subject: RE: "Queers & Pot Heads ..." Peter, Peter, Peter....  alcohol, not marijuana, is the intoxicant of choice for wife beaters, gay bashers, and all sorts of out of control, violent people.  Drunks with guns are far more dangerous. Drunks are far more likely to be "down and out" than marijuana users.  I have not led a sheltered life yet I have never seen a marijuana fueled rage; I don't believe such a condition can exist.  Having said that, responsible individuals never consume more of their preferred intoxicant than they can handle and never mix guns and alcohol, or any other judgment altering substances for that matter. Speaking of law abiding firearms owners regularly breaking the law; wouldn't that also apply to LUFA (Law Abiding Unregistered Firearms Owners Association) and those three or four million firearms owners who never bothered to play the licensing/registration game?  What is a REAL crime anyway?  I think we all agree violence, theft and fraud are crimes.  Under Canada's gun laws, who are the victims?  All firearms owners, potential firearms owners and those who are protected by those who own firearms are the victims. Likewise with marijuana or even the other illegal drugs; who are the victims?  Society? That is a collectivist concept that always leads to a loss of Rights, because only individuals can have Rights.  If there are drug victims (and I don't mean the violence that may accompany the business of drugs which is purely a consequence of the illegal nature of the trade) it could only be the users and possibly their families, and then only if addiction is an issue, which it rarely is. Gambling and taking risks in business and personal life can also be addictions with the same negative results, yet these addictions are quite legal. I recall many years ago attending a libertarian event where the two featured speakers were Vin Suprynowicz and Marc Emery.  I attended with a couple of other NFA members.  Half the room were gun guys there to hear Vin.  The other half were potheads there to hear Marc.  At the beginning of the evening there was the natural discomfort of being strange bedfellows.  As the evening progressed the two groups realized both issues were really the same - that of individual Rights being attacked by social engineers in government.  Marc was sent to jail for acting on his beliefs, just as Bruce Montague went to jail for acting on his. Are we as individuals safer because these men went to jail? Only a twit would say we are. Clive ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 12:51:15 -0700 From: "Clive Edwards" <45clive@telus.net> Subject: RE: "Queers & Pot Heads ..." At one time or another, perhaps even now, gender, sexual preference, race, religion, physical and mental handicaps have all been used as excuses to pass bad laws and do harm to those seemingly afflicted. I should point out the number of "drug" scofflaws is likely as large or larger than the number of those law abiding individuals who don't partake - just as it was during alcohol prohibition. I spent some time in several Arab countries. Alcohol was not taxed because good Muslims wouldn't drink alcohol. When I would go out drinking with Muslim friends I would have to take care to call them by Christian rather than their Arab names when we ordered alcohol. If everyone who smoked marijuana or snorted cocaine could magically be arrested we would be watching test patterns on TV, most computer programs, especially games, would not exist and three quarters of the "justice" industry could be let go. Many banks would see their bottom line shrink, partly due to money laundering, the CIA and other such organizations would have much reduced black budgets (which are supported by drug money) and many blue collar and clerical workers would have no means of excaping the boredom of their lives and might become politically active. As in "Brave New World", Soma is required by the state. How to encourage its use? The reverse psychology of forbidden fruit. The war on drugs, the war on terror, the war on guns, the war on poverty and all the other social re-engineering endeavours are at a political level all about divide and control. So are policies of multi-culturalism, having two official languages and conducting foreign wars. Many private fortunes are made over the bodies of the victims of divide and control policies. Many jobs depend upon them. As long as enough people can be suckered into supporting or even merely accepting these divide and control tactics we will never have personal freedom. By the way, have you ever tried to flush a Glock down a toilet? ;) Clive > Drug control is much like gun control. It is not really about limiting > access to those products. It's only about controlling the immense > political profits and power that go along with it. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 13:07:00 -0700 From: "Clive Edwards" <45clive@telus.net> Subject: RE: "Queers & Pot Heads ..." In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AQIIZGOa0g90BtpnBP4eAEo+DxUM85ZGlV2QgAAl29A= Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca Now all our old rock stars are playing Casinos and show lounges. Bob Dylan played Chilliwack for heavens sake. And "free love"? Most of us couldn't get into a nudist colony, let alone Studio 54. (sigh!) LOL from Clive >As an ex-pot-head (1966 - 1979) I can confidently say that the very last >thing a pot-heard wants to do is shoot guns while high. Listen to the >Grateful Dead, watch the Marx Brothers, and eat, are far more likely >interests! Shooting or fooling with guns? Not so much. Trust me on this! > >Ed Sieb ------------------------------ Date: Sun, May 6, 2012 3:27 pm From: "todd rudderham" Subject: Undermining C-19 showing Ont. CFO Chris Wyatt outright ... ... ignoring what federl laws say- he needs to be fired and all like him Sun News Brian Lilley http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/1622349877001 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 16:44:08 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: female officer stabbed, B.C. court releases video-CBC A truly frightening encounter is caught on tape. The attack is clearly pre-meditated and without any provocation or interaction up until that point. The attacker has been convicted of attempted murder, which is truly justified. The sentence for this miscreant can't be long enough. The attacker is listed at age 51, I'd wager has a criminal history of violence. This guy actions read like a classic psychopath. A paranoid schizophrenic off his meds? Perhaps, but a dangerous offender designation should be applied for by the Crown Prosecutor. My traditional Canadian male, "patriarchal" sensibility considers this felon's attack on a female police officer to be an aggravating factor. She did well in fending off further attack and taking him to the ground and restraining him, after being stabbed in the neck. The two, good samaritan, passers by who came to assist her in handcuffing him are to be commended. Without active public support, policing is a far more lonely, dangerous job. Hopefully, the officer has a full recovery from her injuries. Lesson, in the case of a sudden, out of the blue attack, it's your hand to hand defensive skills that are needed most. (Sic Pacem, Para Bellum) ========================= http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/05/04/bc-stabbing-surveillance-video.html Surveillance camera video of a stabbing that almost killed a Victoria police officer has been released by the court now that the attacker has been convicted of attempted murder. Const. Lane Douglas Hunt was ambushed outside a downtown Victoria convenience store the morning of Jan. 17, 2011, after she had attended to investigate a complaint of shoplifting. The store’s surveillance video shows attacker Guy Herve Seguin following Hunt into the store, even pacing the aisles looking for her, at one point reaching with his left arm for his right sleeve, which turned out to be an ominous gesture. Seguin, 57, then left the store and waited outside for nine minutes until the 24-year-old officer left. "As she's coming out, you can see she has a smile on her face, she’s so respectful to people — she had no idea what she was walking into," said her mother, Mary Douglas Hunt, as she reviewed the video that was a key piece of evidence in Seguin’s trial. "The part that gave me chills was when she was walking towards the door and he came up from the right with his intentions," Douglas Hunt said. As the constable held the door open for Seguin, thinking he wanted to enter, he can be seen attacking her. "He cut her twice by the ear,” her mother said. “He missed her carotid artery by a sixteenth of an inch ... she had him to ground and then they were in the fight, the fight for her life." Despite her injuries, Douglas Hunt eventually got Seguin pinned down. Two Good Samaritans, Rob Caunter and Blair Bater, then rushed in to help the officer handcuff the attacker. Seguin was convicted of attempted murder in March and will be sentenced later this month. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 17:52:22 -0500 From: "Julie A. McNeice" Subject: Re: "Queers & Pot Heads ..." Which part, the ex-pothead part? Julie McNeice Sent from iPhone On 2012-05-06, at 1:16 PM, "bletchleypark@rogers.com" wrote: > > Clive, Clive, Clive..... I agree with you.....partly. > > Notwithstanding the issue of range safety, I believe that prohibitions > on the use of recreational drugs is faulty. This public policy fuels > the destruction of the very fabric of society that it intends to protect. > A casual observation of the carnage inflicted on the people of Mexico > over drug distribution should indicate to most sane policy makers that > the cure of prohibition is deadlier than the disease of illicit drug use. > As with all things institutionally questionable, just follow the money. > The justice system is a great financial beneficiary of drug control > policy. Police agencies profit immensely in both bloated budgets and > over-the-top, sophisticate military-style equipment. Social aid > organization and victim advocacy groups also have their faces entrenched > in the publicly funded money trough. Each sub group within the entire > matrix from street drug mules to end users and with all the > government stakeholders and NGO's in between, profit from the status > quo. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 21:04:01 -0400 From: Barry Glasgow Subject: Firearms officers and our police state From: Barry Glasgow [mailto:barryglasgow@yahoo.com] Sent: May-06-12 8:58 PM To: National Post Cc: lorne.gunter@sunmedia.ca Subject: Firearms officers and our police state Lorne Gunter is absolutely right in expressing concern that Canadian Firearms Officers have crossed the line with their attempt to arbitrarily enact a backdoor gun registry. These police bureaucrats have, in fact, already "diminish[ed] confidence in law enforcement". Firearms owners have felt this way for quite some time as they have experienced over-zealous enforcement of our inane firearms laws by police who are ignorant of the complex regulations and don't really care about the impact they have on gun owners. One need only look at how the CFO harassed elderly gun collectors in the Toronto area to see the beginnings of a police state. It is insane for these bureaucrats to be given such powers and I highly doubt if newspaper editors would tolerate the police having the ability to arbitrarily enforce stricter censorship or to circumvent the ability of journalists to protect their sources. The clamour from newspapers all over the country would be deafening. But not in this case. Barry Glasgow Woodlawn, Ontario ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #82 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)