From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #139 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, June 15 2012 Volume 15 : Number 139 In this issue: Re: "It has only one real purpose..." Digest V15 #136 letter to Hamilton Spec (just sent) ... U of A shooting: Victims in deadly shootings on U of A campus We have a new set of Enemies City TV poll---please vote re Muslim prayers in Public Schools "Stop targeting legal gun owners" SunnewsTV ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 16:25:09 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: Re: "It has only one real purpose..." Digest V15 #136 On 15-Jun-12, at 8:07 AM, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > Date: Thu, June 14, 2012 12:40 pm > From: "Dennis R. Young" > Subject: "It has only one real purpose, and that is to kill people." > > THE HAMILTON SPECATOR - JUNE 14, 2012 > High-powered weapons seized in raid on Oakville home > By Curtis Rush - Source: The Toronto Star > http://www.thespec.com/news/ontario/article/743096--high-powered- > weapons-seized-in-raid-on-oakville-home > > Police raiding an Oakville house have seized weapons more powerful > than > those carried by uniform officers. Included in the haul earlier > this month > was an AR-15 assault rifle, equivalent to the military-style rifles > carried > by the Emergency Task Force. "It has only one real purpose, and > that is to > kill people," Det. Const. Brendan Spelman told reporters Wednesday > as the > weapons were put on display. "These are killing machines," Spelman > said, > adding the weapons have "tremendous stopping power and penetration > power." > > Also seized were a pistol-grip Mossberg 12-gauge shotgun with a > suppressor > to quiet the muzzle blast and two .45 pistols, a Ruger and a Glock. > Two men > are accused of attempted murder in connection with the case. How > police > discovered the weapons can be traced to a June 4 shooting outside > the Pure > Gold strip club on Royal Windsor Dr. in Oakville. Several shots > were fired > in the direction of a car in the parking lot at about 2 a.m. Police > believe > a man was targeted after a dispute erupted inside the club. > > Three hours later, the assailants went looking for their target, > police say. > They thought they found him at an Eva Rd. apartment in The West > Mall area of > Etobicoke. Shots were fired through a door and window, narrowly > missing a > person, as the assailants yelled out a man's name. He was not home. > The > terrified man's stepfather told them his stepson had moved out. > Police later > searched two houses in Oakville and found the weapons at one of > them. Police > also recovered close to 600 rounds of ammunition and half a kilo of > powdered > cocaine. Police said the weapons will be tested to see if they have > been > used in other crimes. Police believe one of the pistols was used in > the > second shooting in Etobicoke and that the weapon used in the first > shooting > is still out there. > Police say there is no evidence to suggest there are > gang connections. The police have seized 4 firearms and a kilo of cocaine while investigating two "targeted" shootings. Then they tell us there is no evidence to suggest there are gang connections. So what are we to believe, these guys grew and processed that much cocaine in their apartment flower box? If citizens read these outlandish statements and then later happen to be chosen for jury duty, are they less likely to believe the police testimony in such cases? Something along the line of "No specific details about motivations of the suspect and/or involvement of organized crime are determined , nor releasable at this time.", something like that would believable. > Andrew Kreston, 28, and Kelsey Evelyn, 34, both of > Oakville, face attempted murder charges and drug and weapons > charges. Police > are linking Evelyn to the second shooting, but not the first. The > men are > known to police. The accused and the intended target were > acquaintances. > > Torstar News Service > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:31:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Sciuk Subject: letter to Hamilton Spec (just sent) ... High powered weapons ... (fwd) Dear Sir/Madame, Constable Spelman overstates when he describes the AR-15 rifle seized from alleged criminals as "equivalent to the military-style rifles carried by Emergency Task Force ... [with] only one real purpose, and that is to kill people". This is simply not true. In reality, the AR-15 rifle is a civilian variant purposely manufactured differently from mililtary and police weapons in order to make it extremely difficult to convert to full auto. Canadian law restricts magazine capacity for this rifle to five rounds, and it is frequently used as a very accurate and expensive target rifle. Further, the AR-15 is treated like a handgun in that it must still be registered, and can only legally be fired at a range certified for restricted firearms. Additional transportation and storage restrictions are imposed upon this rifle, presumeably because of its resemblance to a military firearm, which it most certainly is not. While it is true that the Rem .223 (or 5.56x45mm Nato) round shot from an AR-15 will defeat most police body armour, that is also true of any modern hunting rifle. Police vests are designed to defend against the weapon of choice for criminals likely to engage police -- smuggled handguns. Most police vests won't stop a knife, either. I believe that if you are going to educate people, then one should do so with more facts, and less rhretoric and hysteria. Sincerely, Robert S. Sciuk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 16:38:07 -0600 From: Alfred Hovdestad Subject: U of A shooting: Victims in deadly shootings on U of A campus http://www.edmontonjournal.com/health/Three+dead+after+attempted+armoured+robbery/6786020/story.html U of A shooting: Victims in deadly shootings on U of A campus identified Suspect wanted on three murder charges in deaths of armoured car guards in Edmonton Did you see anything or have any information about the shooting? Please call The Journal at 780-429-5265 or email copdesk@edmontonjournal.com Click here to see photos from the scene. Click here to watch a video of U of A Provost Carl Amrhein speak to the media about the shootings. - --- EDMONTON - A 21-year-old from Sherwood Park is wanted on three counts of first-degree murder and one of attempted murder after a robbery attempt early Friday at the University of Alberta’s HUB Mall. The three guards killed in Friday’s shooting have been identified as Michelle Shegelski, Brian Ilesic and Eddie Rejano. The wounded guard has been identified as Matthew Schumm. Shegelski had worked at the armoured car company since 2008, and was training new employees. Ilesic had worked there since December. Rejano started in February, and Schumm in late March. Baumgartner had been working at the company since early April. Police have launched a massive manhunt for Travis Brandon Baumgartner, wanted in the murders of three armoured truck guards and the wounding of a fourth who remains in hospital in critical condition. Baumgartner and the four victims were all employees of G4S Cash Solutions Canada. They were making a delivery to ABMs on campus late Thursday. Baumgartner is believed to be driving a dark-blue Ford F-150 truck with Alberta licence plate ZRE 724. Anyone who sees him or the truck is urged to immediately call police. As police hunt widened Friday, tactical units and dog teams searched backyards in a Sherwood Park neighbourhood Friday where Baumgartner’s family is believed to live. A resident on a nearby street said police had been there since 10 a.m. Portions of the road remained blocked off just afternoon noon. Police first received reports of gunshots just after midnight. Prasun Kundu, who lives on the third floor of HUB, a combined residence and shopping mall that runs several blocks along 112th Street, said he was watching a movie at around midnight when he heard gunshots. “I heard bang, bang noises out of my window,” said Kundu. After three or four seconds, he heard five or six shots. The three employees appear to have been shot then locked in the secure room behind the ABM machines. “I came down the stairs and looked through the window,” Kundu said. “There was a man groaning and I heard him ... asking for help but I could not see him down there.” Kundu said at first, he couldn’t see the man because he was behind a security door next to the ABM. A video captured by a student after the shooting shows six police officers trying to break through the heavy glass of the Canada Trust door, while one injured man repeatedly howled in anguish from inside. The officers bashed the window dozens of times, using a battering ram then what appeared to be an axe as they frantically tried to get inside. When officers arrived, they broke down the door and pulled out two bodies, Kundu said. The bodies were dressed in what looked like security guards’ blue uniforms. “It was really scary, when first they pulled one dead body, a woman, she was dead. Then they pulled out another one, then the (wounded) man who was groaning.” The video shows officers working to break through for nearly two minutes, before the person shooting the video left the area. The man’s anguished screams could be heard throughout the video. A photograph shot later from above showed a bloody scene, with two bodies that had been dragged out of the secure room. The shooting victims were found inside the mall by members of Safewalk, a campus service that accompanies staff and students at night. “Tonight, a friend and I discovered three shot security guards. Two were dead, one was screaming for us to help him. Worst night ever,” Safewalk volunteer Sapphira Nuttall wrote on Twitter. It’s thought to be the deadliest armoured car robbery in Alberta history. “We are dealing today with what can only be described as a horrific act of violence,” Chief Rod Knecht told a morning news conference, saying the shootings were not a random act. Though his involvement is not clear, Baumgartner is described as a “person of interest,” and Knecht said he has been the subject of “intense investigation” that began early Friday. Three of the employees — two men and a woman — were shot inside the building during the delivery. The fourth, a man, was shot outside. The lone person to survive the attack remains in hospital, but Knecht did not elaborate on injuries. “To the families of those involved, and to the co-workers of these employees from G4S, all of us here at the Edmonton Police Service, and all the citizens of Edmonton, share your feelings of shock and disbelief.” Police will release further updates to the media this afternoon and evening. Knecht did not take questions. Initially, police believed a lone shooter was responsible, but continue to question witnesses. G4S company spokeswoman Robin Steinberg said she could not comment on Baumgartner’s employment status. In his profile on the dating site Plenty of Fish, Baumgartner describes himself as a great guy who works as an armoured guard, has a pet cat and enjoys physics, biology, “decent books” and going to the firing range. In a brief biography, he writes: “I intend to become a CEO of a major corporation and use my power to help everyone I can. I am a people person I love talking, I’m easy to get to know and I’m very laid-back.” Kerry Williamson, a senior media relations adviser with Alberta Health Services, said one person was transported to nearby University of Alberta Hospital in critical condition — “as bad as it gets.” The victims’ identities are not being released pending notification of next of kin. At 6:30 a.m., a white G4S van remained parked on the north side of HUB and forensic investigators had congregated near the body of a man. Nearly a half-dozen forensic markers were laid out in the area. Police also remain at an industrial area in east Edmonton, where a blue G4S truck is parked crookedly in the road, idling with its lights on and partially blocking the driveway of Local 110 of the International Association of Heat and Frost Insulators and Allied Workers. The entire block at 47th Street and 93rd Avenue — less than a block from a G4S compound where several armoured trucks are parked beside a plain, unmarked building — is roped off with yellow police tape and guarded by police, who say forensics officers will be processing the scene. The compound is surrounded by high chain-link fencing topped with barbed wire, an electronic gate and numerous security cameras. A small number of grim-looking police officers came and went from the compound, but have not spoken to media, except to ask them to move away. A uniformed employee at the G4S Edmonton compound declined to comment, but Steinberg said earlier she can’t recall a comparable situation. “This is just horrific. Everybody is in shock and quite devastated. Everybody’s thoughts are with the victims’ families and all of our employees in Edmonton because it’s a pretty tight-knit group.” Steinberg said all employees are being offered counselling. U of A officials had asked students living at HUB to remain in their rooms when the investigation began. As of 7 a.m., they were told they could leave the building, but couldn’t gain access again, said a university spokesman. Carl Amrhein, the U of A provost and chairman of the university’s crisis management team, was contacted around 1 a.m. “This is a terrible event and our thoughts go out to the loved ones of those who have suffered in this event,” Amrhein said. He believes the campus will be operating regularly today except for the HUB complex, although students who are directly affected and have exams today can have them deferred if they wish. The university is offering counselling to students affected by the events. “We have a social media team, we have a website with an emergency broadcast system,” said Amrhein, adding the university also has an elaborate telephone system in a situation like this to notify students. “The safety and security of our faculty, staff and students is our first priority and our campus protective services are working closely with Edmonton police.” Police said they went door to door to speak with students and a campus-wide notification by the U of A was issued shortly before 6:30 a.m. More to come … With files from John MacKinnon, Stuart Thomson, Shaamini Yogaretnam, Lucas Timmons, Brent Wittmeier and Elise Stolte. jpruden@edmontonjournal.com mibrahim@edmontonjournal.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 16:42:23 -0600 From: Edward Hudson Subject: We have a new set of Enemies We have a new set of Enemies. However many of us seem very reluctant to admit it. Matt Gurney spelled it out very clearly last month in "Canada's gun owners shouldn't expect much help from Ottawa" - copied below for emphasis by reiteration. This has to be the most profound, yet under-discussed item ever posted on the Digest. The "nasty surprise" that Mr. Gurney talks about is Mr. Harper & his so-called Conservatives' endorsement of the licencing of firearms owners. That "nasty surprise" should help us to learn from the past. Remember how we used to hate Jean Chrétian when he introduce Bill C-68 in 1995? Recall how we were loath to mention Allan Rock's name without spitting? Reminisce a bit on "The Debate Is Over" Anne McLellan. Those we our enemies then. Well, we now have a completely new set of enemies. So forget this farcical "fight" over the "back door registry". Mr. Harper is likely overjoyed that Mr. Toews' new ridiculous sham legislation is keeping the money flooding into the Conservative Party coffers. And all the while Mr. Harper is killing us with licencing. Our enemies now are those people who supported and endorsed licencing by voting for Bill C-19. Our new enemies are Mr. Harper and every Conservative MP and Senator now sitting in Ottawa. Time to stand up and face our new enemies. Sincerely, Edward B. Hudson CUFOA “You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.” - Winston Churchill NATIONAL POST MAY 28, 2012 Canada's gun owners shouldn't expect much help from Ottawa by Matt Gurney Gun owners who thought they had a friend in the Conservative government in Ottawa are in for a nasty surprise. It would seem that, having delivered on its promise to scrap the long-gun registry, the federal Tories feel that they've paid their dues to Canada's lawful firearms owners. From here on in, the Conservatives won't be doing gun owners any favours. The federal government recently quietly announced that, effective this September, it will begin charging firearms licence holders to renew their licences. The licences are required to possess a firearm, or to purchase ammunition, and must be renewed every five years. As of September, those who hold a licence for restricted or prohibited firearms will need to plunk down $80 for the paperwork. By next May, those seeking to renew a licence for non- restricted firearms - hunting rifles and most shotguns - will have to fork over $60. This isn't a lot of money, and will only raise about $15-million in revenue a year. But it's enough to anger many of Canada's gun owners, who view any gun control measure with suspicion and dislike. There's probably a lot of Conservative MPs who would agree with that philosophically . but politics is politics. The Tories felt comfortable scrapping the long-gun registry because it was unpopular with many Canadians, not just gun owners, largely due to its wastefulness. But that doesn't mean Prime Minister Stephen Harper is going to let his party be seen by moderates, particularly urban voters, as pro-gun. The money raised from the licensing fees supports the federal government's program of licensing firearms, and also sustains the registries for restricted and prohibited firearms, which were not affected by the recent scrapping of the long-gun registry. The fees were also part of the original licensing system, but have been waived by the Tories since they took office in 2006. The waivers were always intended to be time-limited, and the Tories extended them twice, for political purposes - waiving the fees associated with lawful gun ownership was a gesture intended to placate Canada's gun owners until such time that the Tories had enough support in Parliament to scrap the long-gun registry. But that's done. Gun owners no longer need to register their hunting rifles and shotguns. The Tories are no doubt betting that that will be enough to buy continued support, both financial and electoral, from Canada's gun owners. They're probably right. Those who don't own firearms simply cannot comprehend how utterly reviled the long-gun registry was. It was enough to make single-issue-voters out of many gun owners. They will want to reward the party that ultimately delivered on their promise to kill it. And the Tories know it. Eliminating the long-gun registry was politically clever - to gun owners, it was interpreted as a dislike of gun control, to everyone else, it was eliminating a wasteful boondoggle. But Canada's firearms owners still have many legitimate grievances concerning the restrictive, overly broad and at times unclear provisions of the Firearms Act. They want it substantially revised or scrapped altogether. That won't happen. While the Conservatives felt comfortable getting rid of the long-gun registry, that's as far as they're likely to go. To go much further risks being slammed as being pro-gun, forced to respond defensively after every incident of gun violence anywhere in the country (but particularly in the cities). The Tories are having their cake and eating it to - having scrapped the registry, they can still point to the fact that they still require gun owners to be licenced, and register handguns and military-style rifles. And now, they're making the gun owners pay the cost of the gun control regime again. In other words, the Tories are saying we're not against gun control. We're all for it. It was simply the registry that we didn't like. This will leave the gun owners who cheered the end of the long-gun registry, and hoped for more progress, with a bad taste in their mouth. Some will probably even stop donating or stay home on the next election day. The Tories know this. But they know that having all the gun owners in the country behind them won't matter if they can't hold Toronto and its suburbs. It's smart politics. Canada's gun owners will just have to content themselves with the fact that the long-gun registry is no more. That's all they're likely to get. http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/05/28/matt-gurney-canadas-gun-own ers-shouldnt-expect-much-help-from-ottawa/ National Post mgurney@nationalpost.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 15:42:57 -0700 From: Todd Birch Subject: City TV poll---please vote re Muslim prayers in Public Schools http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/local/article/144877--groups-protest-muslim-prayers-at-toronto-public-school _PLEASE EVERYONE VOTE _**_NO _** PLEASE VOTE - I CAN NOT BELIEVE THIS IS HAPPENING IN CANADA ! To vote, log into the website and then go part way down in a small box on the left. Just click "NO" and then click on the word "VOTE". Unfortunately, it wont let you vote more than once!! (only one per computer ) So PLEASE VOTE - Every one counts!! We desperately need more Canadians to get involved. Please forward to other Canadians - Thank You Please read below!!! Apparently many muslims are voting and trying to have this passed and they are at 73% with a "yes" vote now so our vote "no" is urgently required. Please send this on to everyone who you know will vote "no" - - They took Christian prayer out of the schools years ago and we should have fought then. It's never too late! Please email to as many as possible as the vote is not in our favour at this point in time - speak up. Hi everyone, there is a blue website below.. it is a link to Toronto CTV just like Calgary CTV where they have a poll question. What happens in Toronto will have an impact across this country... so if you don't want this to happen in more schools you need to vote "no" . Aside from the religious part of this how in the world are they going to fit in praying 5 times a day??? Will this take away from the curriculum time they are already crying out "not enough time" so this then would become a political issue next.? With having to pay someone to supervise and so on... Vote "no"! We get our rights denied and they think they have the right to ask??? There is something wrong here... and if there are more Muslims out there voting it will be passed. Click the site below it will take you to CTV's site and you will see where to vote in the middle of the page. The Lords Prayer and all Christianity has been taken out of our public schools. Now they want to allow Muslim prayer in our schools! Please click on the blue link below and vote against this injustice. Our rights as Christian Canadians are being violated. Thanks for voting & sending this on so that others will see the injustice. OUR KIDS CAN'T EVEN SAY MERRY CHRISTMAS BECAUSE IT IS CHRISTIAN. WHAT A JOKE! Vote "NO" and pass it on to others immediately so they can vote also. Thanks. It's on CityTV website - so far the vote is at 28%. Help us on this poll vote.. The "no" vote is going up .....yeahhhh It is crucial that you vote "no" against Muslim prayers being conducted in Public Schools, while Christian prayers are not permitted!!! Thank you so much for your help. http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/local/article/144877--groups-protest-muslim-prayers-at-toronto-public-school ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 16:59:17 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: "Stop targeting legal gun owners" SunnewsTV Ed Burlew is interviewed on about the Tor. City Councilor's crank idea of banning bullets. Burlew holds up a box of bullets and tosses one on the floor. He does have a sense of humour. After outlining the protocols/procedures for the legal purchase of ammunition in Ontario and Canada, even to a non-firearm's owner a bullet ban is clearly a crank idea. Now the interview is short and addresses the question at hand, there is no mention that these relatively new restrictions on legal purchase has had zero effect, but yet they remain. That remains an ongoing task. It's part of what is necessary but not sufficient to get to where we need to go. This interview is an effective counter-offensive to the crank bullet banning idea, which is vital as long as Toronto politicians, in their delusions attempt another appeal to ignorance . http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/featured/prime-time/867432237001/ stop-targeting-legal-gun-owners/1690124897001 ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #139 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)