From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #183 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Friday, July 20 2012 Volume 15 : Number 183 In this issue: "Mexican cops, ex-soldier among 17 arrested after mass rape.... Fwd: [Fwd: gang bangers vs the law-abiding] LETTER: HARPER SHOULD NOT SIGN THE UN ARMS TRADE TREATY Re: Toronto shooting spree shows need for a handgun ban Talk won't stop shootings By Stephen Maher NFA files for intervenor status in Ont. gun registry court case re: Colorado theatre shootings Spike in Ottawa shootings cause for concern: police Warner Bros Pulls Trailer of Gangster Shooting Up Movie Theater Was Batman shooting imitated from scene in 1986 comic article? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:58:48 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: "Mexican cops, ex-soldier among 17 arrested after mass rape.... Mexico a model for the effects of civilian disarmament style gun control. - ---------------------------------------------------------- Mexican cops, ex-soldier among 17 arrested after mass rape of Christian campers http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/world/archives/ 2012/07/20120719-122421.html QMI AGENCY Police have arrested 17 people after a brutal attack on Christian campers during which at least five girls were raped. Some 90 members of a Christian youth group were on a church-sponsored camping trip on the outskirts of Mexico City on Friday when a gang of assailants stormed the area and spent hours beating, raping and robbing the campers, authorities say. The assailants rounded up the campers and robbed them at gunpoint. Authorities say five girls were raped and another three were sexually assaulted. Mexico State Governor Eruviel Avila promised to seek the most extreme punishment available - life in prison - for the 15 men and two women arrested. He also promised the government would provide medical, psychological and legal assistance to the victims, Mexican newspaper Milenio reports. Two of the accused are police officers, and one is a former solider. The attorney general of the State of Mexico, Alfredo Castillo, said victims identified 11 of those arrested and many of them had campers' stolen goods in their homes. Avila said six have already confessed. Authorities claim the attack isn't related to organized crime. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 15:56:02 -0700 From: Len Miller Subject: Fwd: [Fwd: gang bangers vs the law-abiding] Begin forwarded message: > From: Len Miller > Date: July 19, 2012 3:45:38 PM PDT (CA) > To: nwnews@cknw.com > Cc: good@cknw.com, ian mulgrew > Subject: [Fwd: gang bangers vs the law-abiding] > > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: >> Date: July 19, 2012 7:54:16 AM PDT (CA) >> Subject: [Fwd: gang bangers vs the law-abiding] >> >> A VERY good letter. To the point and honest. >> >> ----------- Original Message >> Subject: gang bangers vs the law-abiding >> From: "Len Miller" >> Date: Wed, July 18, 2012 11:00 pm >> To: sunletters@vancouversun.com >> >> Some years ago, a young black kid was shot to death at a funeral. . >> in Tronna . . >> The chief vowed to apprehend the 'gang banger' AND MAKE HIM PAY!! >> A retired cop from Vancouver, sent a wee note reminding the police >> chief . . that the ONLY PERSONAGES who could make him 'pay' . were >> the COURTS . . and they weren't doing it >> Fast forward to now, AFTER CHIEF BLAIR had seized 1,200 firearms from >> seniors whose licences had expired . . It was bugled in Tronna's >> main papers , , as >> the chief bragged about 'getting those guns off the street' ( pay >> attention, children: NOT ONE OF THOSE guns were actually 'on the >> street, ) they were in the homes of responsible seniors, some of who >> may actually NEED their gun for self defence . . >> >> So, NOT ONE of the present firearms used in Tronna's latest massacre >> were senior's guns . . they were 'gang bangers guns, NOT >> LICENCED . . >> NOT REGISTERED and certainly NOT ON THE FEDERAL BOONDOGGLE IN >> MIRAMICHI . . were they?? >> >> Could someone in authority get the chief and the mayor and give >> both a size fourteen boot in the ass? >> How about saving us the pain of listening to yet another piece of >> verbal inanity from both these municipal failures . ?? >> >> See Ret'd RCMP Supt. Keith Thompson, and HIS demand to Chief Blair >> to resign after the 'beating' he gave >> to Toronto's seniors . . the chief, it seemed, had surrendered his >> neutrality for politics . . >> >> Guns are not the problem . . guys, the criminal code contains >> sufficient coverage if only WE had the full backing of the judges. >> >> Beat cop >> Vancouver ------------------------------ Date: Thu, July 19, 2012 11:27 pm From: "Dennis R. Young" Subject: LETTER: HARPER SHOULD NOT SIGN THE UN ARMS TRADE TREATY Forwarded with permission of the author From: lynda and inky mark [mailto:inky@mymts.net] Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 1:02 PM To: Dennis & Hazel Young Subject: united nations att, letter to editor July 18th, 2012 Re: LETTER TO THE EDITOR HARPER SHOULD NOT SIGN THE UNITED NATIONS' ARMS TRADE TREATY Are you aware that presently the United Nations is trying to push for a global agreement to track and control the trade of firearms . There is no doubt this will create another costly bureaucracy which in the end will have no effect on those countries governed by dictators or anyone else in the business of selling arms, large or small. The honest countries like Canada will again look like boy scouts on the international playing field. Even though Canada is pushing for an exemption for sports shooters, my fear is that once this international treaty is passed , there will be pressures put on the control and eventual elimination of small arms ownership with those country who supported the treaty. With a Conservative government in place, the firearm owners of Canada can take a breather for now. Can anyone predict the kind of government that will get elected in the future and whether they will create new firearm control legislation just to satisfy the new United Nations Arms Trade Treaty? In my opinion Canada should not sign the United Nation's Arms Trade Treaty. Canada is a sovereign country and we can write our own firearm control laws. Sincerely, Inky Mark Dauphin, Mb Inky@mymts.net http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inky_Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 23:17:49 -0700 From: Bob Subject: Re: Toronto shooting spree shows need for a handgun ban On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 13:14:58 -0600 (CST), you wrote: > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 07:21:58 -0700 (PDT) >From: Bruce Mills >Subject: [TorStar] Toronto shooting spree shows need for a handgun ban > >http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/article/1227881--toronto-shooting-spree-shows-need-for-a-handgun-ban > >Toronto shooting spree shows need for a handgun ban > >Published on Tuesday July 17, 2012 > >Toronto police estimate that about a third of the guns they seize come >from domestic sources. The other two-thirds are smuggled into Canada from >the United States. As of the end of May, there were almost 700,000 legally >registered handguns in this country — a sizable arsenal waiting to be >stolen by criminals. While this isn’t the main origin of their firepower, >private collections represent a significant source that should be shut >down. > This guy can't solve any shooting cases including this one and he's telling US that the Gun Registry shopping list he supported, does NOT solve crimes. The online registry downloaded from various persons of all walks of life made the Registered Gun Owner a very large target. >To that end, a nationwide handgun ban deserves a fresh look in the wake of >the worst shooting spree in Toronto’s history. Unlike a shotgun or hunting >rifle, a handgun has no practical use except to kill a human being. No How practical is killing an animal for food or punching paper oh I forgot "handguns" are used for killing as well as Rifles and Scopes. Guns all have a sonic signature that attracts all sorts of witnesses, so knives, sprays, syringes full off poison are the choice of "professionals". >wonder it’s the gangster’s weapon of choice. These weapons should have no >place in Canadian society apart from police, the military, and a few top >competitive shooters. > Sure all gangsters have guns, were is that proven except for the police, the military? >Collectors and pistol enthusiasts complain such a ban, delivered under a >mandatory federal buyback program, would end their freedom to pursue a Maybe we should confiscate the police handgun collection or who are they "holier than thou" or some "Peeler" motto. >handgun hobby. They’re right. But balanced against that is the freedom of >innocent people to enjoy life without being cut down in a hail of pistol >bullets. By "innocent people" you mean the Police and it's direct affiliates...Right????....Right! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, July 20, 2012 8:11 am From: "Dennis R. Young" Subject: Talk won't stop shootings By Stephen Maher Talk won't stop shootings No easy solution to gun crimes, despite politicians' empty swagger By Stephen Maher, Postmedia News July 20, 2012 4:01 AM http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Talk+stop+shootings/6963398/story.html If tough talk made the streets safe, then Shyanne Charles, 14, and Joshua Yasay, 23, would still be alive. But tough talk and empty swagger may make politicians look and feel good, but it didn't save any lives in Toronto Monday night and it never will. But, predictably, when something went wrong Monday at a cognac party in a tough Scarborough housing project, and hoodlums sprayed the partiers with bullets and 23 people were wounded, the politicians started with their empty, foolish talk. Mayor Rob Ford tried to calm public jitters as the media fretted Toronto was in for another "summer of the gun." He said people shouldn't be fearful. "We have a couple of unfortunate, isolated incidents," he said. "I know this is the safest city in the world, I've always said that and I truly believe that it is." Toronto, of course, is not the safest city in the world, whatever Ford believes. Iceland, Japan and Monaco have the lowest homicide rates in the world. Toronto's not Ciudad Juárez, Mexico, but lots of cities around the world are safer. Unsurprisingly, Ford didn't know what he was talking about. He got stupider as the day went on, seeing an opportunity to score political points. In the afternoon, he said, it's time to say "enough is enough," take action against "the spineless cowards causing this violence" and "declare war on these violent gangs." A war? That should prevent more violence. Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty, also feeling the public mood, vowed Ontarians "cannot and will not stand for" such shootings, and proposed meeting Ford and Toronto police Chief Bill Blair to "determine what it is we have in place by way of measures that might act to prevent these kinds of tragedies from unfolding." A meeting is unlikely to do much harm, I suppose, but I wouldn't expect much good. Likely, the men will demonstrate steely resolve and the police will round up a lot of street-corner coke dealers for the cameras, with no impact on public safety. You can expect less still from the federal government. In the first line of a statement from CIDA Minister Julian Fantino and Justice Minister Rob Nicholson, they declared the government was "very saddened." They followed that with seven sentences of boilerplate about how tough on crime this government is, bragging about the "toughon-crime legislation" that will "keep dangerous criminals and gang members off the streets and out of our communities." The release brags about steps taken to restrict guns from coming over the border and introduced mandatory minimum sentences for gun crimes. It all does sound tough, but it is pointless, and it rests on the false premise the federal government has the capacity to do much of anything about the problem of gun violence. Stop guns at the border? Please. More than 140,000 vehicles cross the Canada-U.S. border every day. In the United States, you can buy unregistered handguns at gun shows. If Canadian criminals want them, they will find a way to get them. Mandatory minimums? There are stacks of scholarly studies that show they do not deter crime, both because street criminals do not make carefully calculated assessments before they commit crimes and because when you do lock them up, they often become more skilful and hardened. This stuff works at the ballot box, though, particularly among Conservative supporters, and the Conservative Party of Canada has sought to wring every ounce out of political benefit out of its toughon-crime messaging, even while dismantling the gun registry, which offered some limited (though often exaggerated) benefit to the police who track down stolen guns. As dumb as the statement was, Public Safety Minister Vic Toews went further later, in a radio interview, complaining about several recent judicial decisions that overturned mandatory minimum provisions passed by Parliament. "We are very concerned about the courts doing that, because illegal firearms - especially those smuggled in from the United States - minimum prison sentences are absolutely essential to create a strong deterrent against that kind of activity," he said. Toews, who never misses an opportunity to attack the gun registry, is complaining about Ontario judges who declined to impose sentences that did not fit the circumstances of the cases before them. In one case, a judge declined to send a coke dealer away for three years for offering to sell a gun (to an undercover officer) that seems not to have existed. In another case, a judge declined to impose a mandatory minimum sentence on a young man who was posing for a Facebook photo with a gun that seems not to have belonged to him. The world is complicated. Laws can do only so much, which is a comfort when you consider that politicians like Toews are the people who write them. There are no easy solutions to gun crime. It might feel good to pretend otherwise, but that won't save any lives ------------------------------ Date: Fri, July 20, 2012 8:43 am From: "Dennis R. Young" Subject: NFA files for intervenor status in Ont. gun registry court case Canada’s National Firearms Association Media Release – For Immediate Release - 20 July 2012 Canada’s National Firearms Association has filed for intervener status in the Ontario-based application by the Barbra Schlifer Commemorative Clinic to maintain the firearms registry. Speaking from Prince George, NFA President Sheldon Clare pointed out that Canada’s National Firearms Association represented the interests of the five million or more Canadian firearms owners who could be harmed by a court finding in favour of the applicant. “The NFA will stand for the civil, human, property rights of the firearms owning public,” he said, “Canada’s National Firearms Association is the largest organization in this country protecting these fundamental freedoms, and the only one engaged in legislative and legal action to support those rights. It will be up to the courts to decide whether or not our application has merit, but we are confident that our attorney, Solomon Friedman of the Ottawa firm Edelson, Clifford, D’Angelo will serve us well.” “While it is true that there is much more to be done in order to correct the grievous wrongs wrought upon Canadian society by the Firearms Act, protecting the gain that has been made is important,” Clare continued. “As long as the Liberal Firearms Act remains law, the freedoms, rights, and property of all Canadians remains at risk. Fundamental firearms law reform will not have been achieved until the Government of Canada replaces the 1995 Liberal C68 Firearms Act and the previous Bill C-17 with new legislation that respects the rights and property of ordinary Canadians. Firearms laws have often been pushed upon Canadians under the guise of public safety when in fact these laws are merely serving to limit hard won freedoms. Neither the firearm registration system, nor the licensing programs have ever truly been about saving any lives. These laws have really been about trying to change Canadian firearms culture.” At over 62,000 members, Canada’s National Firearms Association is this country’s largest advocacy organization promoting the rights and freedoms of all responsible firearm owners and users. For more information contact: Blair Hagen, Executive VP Communications, 604-753-8682 Blair@nfa.ca Sheldon Clare, President, 250-981-1841 Sheldon@nfa.ca Canada’s NFA toll-free number - 1-877-818-0393 NFA Website: www.nfa.ca For legal questions related to the case please contact: Solomon Friedman 600-200 Elgin Street Ottawa ON K2P 1L5 613.237.2290 www.edelsonlaw.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 07:47:41 -0700 From: Todd Birch Subject: re: Colorado theatre shootings Again, it begs the question ..... the shooter had his guns; why didn't anyone else? The public is vulnerable to attack from psychopaths and others with a social or political agenda and need to be able to protect themselves. The other option is to 'dial 911 and die'. It is unconscionable to deny this right to people as the criminals will always be able to arm themselves. In the wake of the recent Toronto shootings, an official spoke about the futility of a handgun ban for that reason. Someone posted a comment by Sir John A. re: civil disarmament being unacceptable as it disarms the very people who ought to be armed. Please post it again. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:54:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Mills Subject: Spike in Ottawa shootings cause for concern: police http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Spike+shootings+cause+concern+police/6955764/story.html Spike in Ottawa shootings cause for concern: police Rise attributed to more guns on the street, gang members becoming more aggressive By Meghan Hurley, Ottawa Citizen July 19, 2012 OTTAWA — It’s too soon to call it the year of the gun, but in the first seven months of 2012, the Ottawa police guns and gangs unit has investigated four more shootings than it did all of last year, including a brazen daylight shooting on Tuesday during a car chase. Staff Sgt. Mark Patterson said the Blair Street incident was the 26th incident of shots fired so far in 2012, excluding the Khalid Doreh and Peyman Hatami homicides, which are being handled by the major crimes section. Later Wednesday, police were called to a 27th, at Fisher Avenue near Baseline Road where they found two shell casings and a vehicle with a bullet hole in it. They investigated 23 shots-fired calls in all of 2011. Patterson said the rise is partly due to more guns on the street and gang members becoming increasingly more aggressive. More than half the shootings this year were gang-related. Most of the guns on Ottawa’s streets are handguns — half were stolen from registered owners, the other half smuggled into the city from the United States, Patterson said. “Does that mean it’s going to be the year of the gun? I don’t know if that’s the case,” Patterson said. “All I know is that we’ve got people right now that are carrying firearms that are more brazen in relation to where they’re shooting them off, and we have more victims being shot at.” The recent spike in shootings is a cause for concern, Patterson said. An innocent bystander could have been hit by a bullet in Tuesday afternoon’s shooting on Blair Street at Station Boulevard in the Riverview Park neighbourhood. The Tuesday incident unfolded after an altercation between two groups of men. The shooting suspects apparently got into a car and chased after a second vehicle at high speed. The passenger in one car fired two shots at the second vehicle, but police say no one was injured. Police searched the area and found one of the cars abandoned nearby on Drake Avenue. The car was seized. Patterson said his investigators spoke to the owner of the suspect vehicle and determined he was not involved in the shooting. Police wouldn’t say Wednesday whether the vehicle owner is related to the suspects, but said the car was not stolen. Patterson said several “persons of interest” in Tuesday’s shooting were identified with the help of descriptions given to police by witnesses. In most cases, though, witnesses and victims don’t usually co-operate with police. “We had a victim shot in the face not too long ago and he walked out of the hospital and didn’t give us a statement, saying he was going to take care of things in his own hands,” he said. “To us, that means there’s going to be retaliation.” Anyone with information can call the Ottawa police guns and gangs unit at 613-236-1222 extension 5050. mhurley@ottawacitizen.com twitter.com/meghan_hurley © Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 11:14:49 -0600 From: "Joe Gingrich" Subject: Warner Bros Pulls Trailer of Gangster Shooting Up Movie Theater http://www.deadline.com/2012/07/warner-bros-paired-dark-knight-rises-with-trailer-of-gangster-shooting-up-movie-theater-which-studio-didnt-take-down-until-i-complained/ UPDATE: Warner Bros Pulls Trailer of Gangster Shooting Up Movie Theater By NIKKI FINKE | Friday July 20, 2012 @ 9:38am PDTTags: Colorado movie theater shooting, Gangster Squad, The Dark Knight Rises, Warner Bros EXCLUSIVE . UPDATE 9:30 AM: Warner Bros is now telling me that its outside non-studio spokeswoman failed to tell me the whole and accurate story about the process that led to the studio taking down its offensive Gangster Squad trailer this morning. A Warner Bros executive now tells me how the studio was scrambling to deal with the Aurora theater shooting crisis in the pre-dawn hours of the morning. Then, at 5 AM, one of the top distribution execs remembered that Warner Bros' Gangster Squad trailer was playing "loose" this weekend timed to the studio's The Dark Knight Rises release in about 30% of domestic theaters. ("Loose" means that theaters had been asked to play the trailer which was not paired with The Dark Knight Rises.) According to Warner Bros, this distribution exec suddenly remembered that the trailer for the mob movie contained a scene showing a gangster with a machine gun shooting up people in a movie theater from behind the big screen. This distribution exec quickly instructed the studio to "replace it as soon as possible". At 6 AM, Warner Bros started notifying the theater circuits to pull the offensive Gangster Squad trailer. That is being done all over North America today. Meanwhile, Warner Bros' marketing department is scrambling to get out its second-generation Gangster Squad trailer already in the works. This new trailer, without the movie theater scene, will be swapped out for the offensive one within a week. Warner Bros says this is now the whole story. And the studio's explanation which I absolutely believe also makes clear that, while my phone calls overlapped with their behind-the-scenes process, I was not responsible for the studio pulling the offensive Gangster Squad trailer with the movie theater shooting scene. PREVIOUS 7:30 AM: This was truly terrible decision-making by Warner Bros - both to release a trailer like this and then not to pull it immediately after today's tragedy. . I have confirmed that the studio which released The Dark Knight Rises paired offered it with the official movie trailer for Gangster Squad, an upcoming pic set in 1949 about a ruthless Mafia Godfather who runs Los Angeles. One of the scenes in the trailer that's been playing all morning today shows a gangster with a machine gun shooting up people in a movie theater from behind the big screen. Several outraged moviegoers tipped me to this scene. This morning I called on Warner Bros to take this trailer down immediately. The studio's response to me? "There's a meeting about this and then a decision will be reached." I just received the call that the trailer is being pulled. But only after I complained. And yet movie moguls wonder why so much of the country hates Hollywood values where money trumps everything, even during the Aurora theater shooting tragedy. Here's the horrible clip which no one at Warner Bros should have allowed to be made, much less released, in the first place: ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 11:30:33 -0600 From: "Joe Gingrich" Subject: Was Batman shooting imitated from scene in 1986 comic article? http://washingtonexaminer.com/batman-movie-shooting-imitated-from-scene-in-1985-comic/article/2502701 Was Batman shooting imitated from scene in 1986 comic article? July 20, 2012 127Comments The horrific shooting at the screening of The Dark Knight Rises in Colorado late last night bears eerie similarities to a scene in the 1986 comic Batman: The Dark Knight Returns. In the comic, a crazed, gun-toting loner walks into a movie theater and begins shooting it up, killing three in the process. The passage concludes with the media blaming Batman for inspiring the shooting, though he is not involved in the incident at all. The 1986 comic, written and drawn by Frank Miller, was a key inspiration for the Chris Nolan Batman films. It helped to reimagine the character away from his Saturday morning cartoon image and into a dark, grim avenger. The point of this particular scene in the comic was to show just how far Gotham has fallen since Batman had retired. Was the shooter imitating this scene from the comic? Maybe, although in the scene the shooter is portrayed as inspired by his disgust at pornography and heavy metal music. The police's investigation will surely reveal more in the near future. Editor's note: This post has been updated to reflect the correct date of the 1986 comic, The Dark Knight Returns comments Glen I only wish more people in that theater were armed. If so this guy would be at the morgue on a slab and the body count would be much lower. a.. jameson There is a reason why I wont go to local movie theaters here (i live in aurora). I have a license but they usually have those stickers about not carrying at the theater. So I don't go to them and go up to my inlaws local theater that my brother in law works at. Not as many crazies and no one cares if i carry. Also not even armed people in the theater but people who would fight back. Running only gets you shot in your back get enough people to run at him he wont be firing for long. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #183 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)