From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #230 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Precedence: normal Cdn-Firearms Digest Saturday, August 25 2012 Volume 15 : Number 230 In this issue: Massive gun collection seized by OPP Q&A: U.S. special agent based in Toronto tackles gun crime Canadian army looks for a few good guns to fend off polar bear Gun risks at Tampa's GOP convention spark controversy Bikers turned St. Lawrence River into gun graveyard U. of Colorado to allow guns on campus, but not in dorms RE: Gun culture trumps gun control By Matthew Claxton ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, August 25, 2012 9:04 am From: "Dennis R. Young" Subject: Massive gun collection seized by OPP Massive gun collection seized by OPP http://www.elliotlakestandard.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3601741 http://www.northernlife.ca/news/policeandCourt/2012/08/24-firearms-elliot-lake-sudbury.aspx http://www.sootoday.com/content/news/details.asp?c=46232 http://local2.ca/ssm/viewarticle.php?id=7273 A large quantity of firearms, ammunition and gun powder were seized from a residence in Elliot Lake on Wednesday, Aug. 22. The seizure was the result of a warrant for a residence in the Westhill trailer park. The action was carried out by the OPP's organized crime unit and members of the East Algoma OPP. As a result of the search police located and seized an excess of 140 firearms of various calibres, a very large quantity of ammunition and gun powders that were found to be stored in an unsafe manner. Charged with the following is Kenneth Ashworth, 65, of Elliot Lake: . Unlawful possession of explosives . Careless storage of ammunition . Careless storage of a firearm . Breach of firearms regulations The accused is scheduled to appear in Elliot Lake court on Nov. 6. The investigation is continuing. - --------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, August 25, 2012 9:20 am From: "Dennis R. Young" Subject: Q&A: U.S. special agent based in Toronto tackles gun crime Q&A: U.S. special agent based in Toronto tackles gun crime BY CARYS MILLS - The Globe and Mail - Last updated Saturday, Aug. 25 2012, 9:11 AM EDT http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/us-special-agent-based-in-toronto-tackles-gun-crime/article4496352/ After a gun goes off during a crime in Toronto, a team of experts tries to decipher its provenance. If investigators believe the gun is from the United States, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) gets involved. Special Agent Regina Lombardo arrived in Toronto seven years ago this week to open the ATF's third Canadian office, which covers most of the eastern half of the country. The ATF won't estimate the percentage of U.S.-sourced crime guns in Canada but Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair has said 70 per cent of handguns seized by his officers in crimes are from the U.S. In a summer of high-profile shootings, some in very public spaces, The Globe and Mail sat down with Special Agent Lombardo to talk about her work with police forces on both sides of the border. WHY DOES THE ATF GET INVOLVED? For the most part, forces here can determine if a firearm is from the U.S. before they send a trace request to the ATF. In the U.S., the ATF regulates the gun industry. A gun dealer has to provide their records to ATF. If it's a Smith & Wesson firearm, that company has to provide all the information on it, including the last-known purchaser of that weapon. I have to fill in all the blanks from the purchase to the date and time that it was used in a crime here in Canada. I have to look at that trace and determine if there's potentially trafficking factors: How did that firearm end up here in Toronto? Was it trafficked? Was it smuggled? WHAT HAPPENS SOUTH OF THE BORDER? If that gun was, say, purchased in Alabama, then I send that lead to the Alabama office and I put the agents in touch with the Canadian police. ATF agents also call for assistance for the U.S. to make connections with Canadian agencies and forces. It's a lot of building relationships. If it does originate from the U.S., we're investigating in the U.S., making an impact in violent crime because rarely will you see a trafficker traffic a firearm just to Canada and not other places. WHAT'S CHANGED SINCE YOU GOT HERE IN 2005? It was the Summer of the Gun [in Toronto]. At that time my priority had to shift to setting up an office because we had no presence here. It was pretty much focusing on the core issue, which was the gun-related homicides. We set up a standard operating procedure to work with police forces and developed an urgent gun trace policy for homicides. Before, everything went through the Ottawa office. We also didn't have the technology that we do now, eTrace, which is an electronic version. WHAT IF PEOPLE TRY TO SCRATCH OFF THE SERIAL NUMBER? DON'T YOU NEED THAT FOR TRACING? It's called being obliterated - people drill the serial number sometimes. It's a trafficking factor: Most don't obliterate serial numbers unless they don't want that person to know who purchased that weapon. We have technology now that we can recover that obliterated serial number and we train police department's technicians, which is another one of our roles. What does trafficking look like? How are guns shipped here and what's the markup? You have your mix. You have your trafficking groups, people that live in the U.S. part-time, Canadians that vacation in parts of the States. Since I've been here, 90 per cent of the cases are the drugs-for-guns exchange. Canadian [hydroponic], ecstasy, in exchange for handguns. I've never seen a truckload or something of that scale. Most of . the last few cases, they're secreted inside cars, spare tires, all sorts of methods. Four, five at a time. A $200 weapon can go for $2,500 to $3,000 on the streets here so there's a huge markup. The types of guns that we trace are mainly handguns, semiautomatic. WHAT CASES ARE YOU MOST PROUD OF SINCE GETTING HERE? Project Bluegrass involved Peel Region. It was a traditional trafficking type of case but the sentencing of the main person - Ricardo Tolliver, who got 32 years - was the first time we've ever received a sentence that high in the U.S. At one point he was getting different "mules" to go back and forth to the border and then he was actually working on making his own firearms. One of the weapons he transported here was used in the Bandido [motorcycle gang] murders. For Project Singer, we used undercover Toronto officers in Windsor. The weapons were coming from Detroit and we believe they were destined for the streets of Toronto but we were able to cut that off. You're talking about two separate countries, two separate rules and regulations and it was probably the most complex and most difficult for me to work through. HOW DID YOU GET INTO THIS TYPE OF WORK? I was on my way to law school and took a detour. I was finishing up my last year of college and got offered an internship at the academy. It was a hard agency to wrap your head around, it was very controversial, the right to bear arms. It was a challenge and there weren't a lot of female agents at the time. I worked in the Miami field office for 15 years before Toronto, 10 as a street agent and five as a group supervisor in charge of a very multi-agency taskforce. Most of what they did was armed narcotic trafficking cases. AND ON YOUR TIME OFF? I moved here with my two German Shepherds, Bosco and Paris, when they were puppies. That's where I get my joy and that's where I spend a lot of my quality time and thinking, even about decisions with work. - ------------------------------------- "WHAT THE RCMP DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT THE EFFECTIVENESS OF TRACING FIREARMS IN CANADA" http://nfa.ca/sites/default/files/RCMP-ATI-CFIS-Firearms-Traces.pdf ------------------------------ Date: Sat, August 25, 2012 9:24 am From: "Dennis R. Young" Subject: Canadian army looks for a few good guns to fend off polar bear threat Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca Canadian army looks for a few good guns to fend off polar bear threat By Murray Brewster, The Canadian Press - August 24, 2012 http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Canadian+Army+looks+good+guns+fend+polar+bear+threat/7141741/story.html OTTAWA - They went toe-to-toe with the Taliban in the dusty laneways of Kandahar without batting an eye, but it's the mighty polar bear that's giving the Canadian army pause for thought. The military had been on the lookout for an "anti-predator weapon" with which to equip both Arctic Rangers and regular force units whenever they operate on their own in the North. In the meantime, it has issued First World War vintage Lee-Enfield rifles to units based in southern Canada for use whenever those northern response companies are dispatched to the Arctic. The issue of "protection from predators (polar bears) was brought forward" at a meeting last year in Resolute, Nunavut, where the military was discussing what kinds of equipment it needs to operate in the remote, unforgiving terrain. "Army tasks for now include presence (sovereignty), support to the population (disasters, etc.), recovery (MAJAD, downed satellites, SAR assistance, etc.)," said a Sept. 14, 2011 briefing note prepared for the head of the army, Lt.-Gen. Peter Devlin. "Although the norm is for our personnel to work closely with Rangers, the possibility exists of operating for a brief period without their close support." The roughly 4,700 Rangers - sprinkled in 178 communities across the North - are the backbone of the military's presence in the region. They conduct patrols across the vast frozen wasteland and are equipped with Lee-Enfields, bolt-action, magazine-fed rifles that were standard issue during the first half of the 20th century. The army has been trying to replace them for years because there are so few manufacturers left who make spare parts for the rifles, first introduced to the British Army in 1895. The fact that they don't freeze up or jam in the Arctic is part of their charm, so the army made the decision last year to equip regular force units conducting operations in the North with Lee-Enfields until replacement weapons arrive, possibly next year. The weapons the Rangers are using were purchased in the 1950s. Public Works put out a tender last fall for 10,000 replacement rifles, but defence industry sources said Friday that the program has been held up over concern about who holds the design rights on certain weapons. The military's skittishness about polar bears is justified, said northern outfitter Ryan St. John, who runs Henik Lake Adventures, a popular wilderness tour outside Arviat, Nunavut. The beasts are powerful and unpredictable, with fur-covered paws that make them remarkably quick and quiet, said St. John, a 20-year veteran of hunting in the north. "For the size of animal it is, they are really stealthy and you just have to be on guard all of the time," St. John said by phone from his Nunavut office. "They can cover a lot of ground in just a few seconds and you've got to be ready to take action quickly." However, St. John said he's not sure the army needs a special "anti-predator weapon," since polar bears can be frightened off with other, non-lethal means. "We've never had to kill a bear in our hunting camps for defensive purposes," he said. "We've always been able to chase them away with (12-gauge shotgun) cracker shells and rubber bullets. That seems to work just fine." The Canadian Arctic is home to two-thirds of the world's remaining polar bear population and some U.S. conservation groups, according to published reports last month, are pushing Washington to ban the trade in polar bear parts and to upgrade the animal's status on the endangered species list. Canada is the only country that permits a commercial polar bear hunt. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, August 25, 2012 9:29 am From: "Dennis R. Young" Subject: Gun risks at Tampa's GOP convention spark controversy Gun risks at Tampa's GOP convention spark controversy between local, state officials BY JOANNA SLATER - NEW YORK - The Globe and Mail - Last updated Wednesday, Aug. 22 2012, 9:25 PM EDT http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/us-election/gun-risks-at-tampas-gop-convention-spark-controversy-between-local-state-officials/article4494195/ Nothing says "welcome" like the chance to carry a concealed weapon. If you're going anywhere near next week's Republican National Convention in Tampa, don't even think about bringing a water gun, a glass bottle, an aerosol can, a padlock, or even a really long rope. However, if you'd like to walk around with a handgun on your person, feel free to go right ahead. All that's required is a concealed-weapons permit valid in Florida, something roughly seven-million Americans possess. The disparity stems from a standoff between the city's mayor and the governor of Florida, who rejected Tampa's request to prohibit guns from the areas surrounding the convention for the duration of the event. Under Florida law, local governments cannot impose such restrictions themselves. Now, as thousands of delegates, journalists, and protesters start to converge upon the city, local officials say they're worried about the potential risks involved in having guns as part of the mix. "We were concerned that if you had a lot of conflicting groups, we didn't want things to escalate," said James Shimberg, the City Attorney in Tampa. "We just thought it would be a safer environment if there were no firearms." For gun-rights advocates, however, the city's desire to ban guns from the areas around the convention was an unacceptable restriction on their legal right to carry weapons. Rick Scott, Florida's Republican governor, wrote in a letter to Tampa's mayor that "it is unclear how disarming law-abiding citizens would better protect them" from danger. "It is at just such times that the constitutional right to self-defense is most precious." By holding the convention in Tampa, Republicans are hoping to boost their chances in a crucial battleground state coveted by both parties in November's election. Inside the convention venue and its immediate perimeter, the Secret Service is in charge of security and civilians will not be allowed to carry weapons. Beyond the area entrusted to the Secret Service, however, it's a different story. As with every party convention, thousands of demonstrators are expected in Tampa, the majority of them peaceful. In case the environment grows heated, the city has taken elaborate precautions. It passed a temporary ordinance banning everything from large pieces of lumber to "super soaker" water guns and umbrellas from the areas surrounding the convention. It also didn't want the additional risks posed by people carrying guns. But in Florida, only the state government can enact such limitations. So in May, Tampa's mayor, Bob Buckhorn, wrote a letter to the governor asking him to use his executive power to institute a temporary ban on handguns in the area. The answer was a swift "no." The irony of being able to ban glass bottles but not handguns in the vicinity of the convention is not lost on city leaders. "It's very frustrating," said Lisa Monteliore, a member of Tampa's city council, who said she was concerned about what could happen in a situation where thousands of protesters are expected and where passions run high. "Even responsible individuals in a highly charged situation make mistakes." In Florida, however, any restriction on the rights of gun owners is the stuff of political dynamite. The state has the highest number of valid concealed-weapon permits - 900,000 - of any in the nation (and through agreements with other states, an additional six million people can carry their weapons in Florida). It is also home to the controversial "Stand Your Ground" Law, which gives citizens a broad right to self-defence. Bo Dietl, a former New York detective, runs the security and investigations firm Beau Dietl & Associates. He has consulted on security arrangements for prior Republican conventions and sees merit in Florida's stance. "What if I'm the owner of a restaurant with a legal permit?" he asked. "You can't prevent me from carrying just because the convention is down the street." Experts say they're not surprised by Florida's response to Tampa's demand. "Florida has been a leader in the gun rights movement," noted Adam Winkler, a professor of constitutional law at the University of California. The state was one of the first to embrace more relaxed rules for carrying concealed weapons, he said. Local officials who adopt their own measures on guns can face fines or removal from office, according to a state law passed last year. Mayor Buckhorn, a Democrat, used to hold a concealed-weapons permit himself. He has repeatedly expressed his displeasure at the way his hands are tied. "Isn't this the stupidest damn discussion?" the mayor said at a talk earlier this year. "If you think about it, I'm going to ban squirt guns, but I can't ban handguns. I wonder sometimes if the NRA hasn't hijacked the Florida legislature." Representatives of the National Rifle Association didn't respond to requests for comment. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, August 25, 2012 9:31 am From: "Dennis R. Young" Subject: Bikers turned St. Lawrence River into gun graveyard Bikers turned St. Lawrence River into gun graveyard By Eric Thibault ,QMI Agency - Updated: Friday, August 24, 2012 01:59 PM EDT http://www.torontosun.com/2012/08/24/bikers-turned-st-lawrence-river-into-gun-graveyard MONTREAL - The Hells Angels dumped hundreds of guns into the St. Lawrence River during the bloody 1990s war with the Rock Machine gang, says a federal study. The report, based on information from informants, was obtained by QMI Agency and highlights the ease with which criminals bought and disposed of black-market weapons. The Hells went to great lengths to cover their tracks amid a murder and bombing spree that targeted other bikers, prison guards and also killed bystanders. The Jacques-Cartier bridge on the eastern edge of downtown Montreal was a favourite dumping ground for pistols and other black-market weapons the Hells had used to gun down rivals. Three Hells Angels members agreed to speak with University of Montreal criminologists for the study commissioned by the Public Safety ministry. One gangster said the Hells bought all of their guns on the black market and estimates he destroyed as many as 200 weapons. "For all of the weapons we used ... the standing order was the following: use and destroy," the report quotes the biker as saying. "Immediately after they were used, they ended up in the river." He said he would discard a gun for any reason, even if it had been used to pistol-whip someone or for target shooting. The bikers said their gun suppliers were based in the Kanesatake, Akwesasne and Kahnawake Mohawk communities in southern Quebec. Bikers also bought unregistered guns on the Internet or under-the-table at gun shops. The study concluded that police "simply do not have the necessary resources" to stop the flow of weapons. A total of 165 people were killed in the biker war over control of lucrative Quebec drug territory between 1994 and 2002. The death of a 10-year-old boy in a Montreal car bombing provoked public outrage that led to the gangsterism law and subsequent police raids that crippled biker gangs in Quebec. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, August 25, 2012 9:35 am From: "Dennis R. Young" Subject: U. of Colorado to allow guns on campus, but not in dorms U. of Colorado to allow guns on campus, but not in dorms By Brett Wilkins Aug 24, 2012 http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/331485 Boulder - Complying with a state Supreme Court ruling that overturned a campus-wide ban on firearms, the University of Colorado (CU) will now allow students to carry concealed weapons on campus. NPR reports that concealed-carry permit holders will be permitted to bring guns to classes, the university bookstore, the quad and nearly anywhere else on the sprawling Boulder campus. However, students will be barred from carrying guns at sporting events or in dorms. Students who wish to exercise their second amendment rights in their housing units will be forced to move into a graduate housing complex at the far north end of campus. "It is legal now to bring your concealed carry weapon with you, as long as you're a permit holder and keep it concealed," Deb Coffin, vice chancellor for student affairs, told NPR. In Colorado, the eligibility age for a concealed-carry permit is 21, so many underclassmen living in dorms will be unaffected by the policy change. Gun rights advocates hailed the shift, pointing to the recent Aurora massacre as proof of the need for an armed and vigilant citizenry. "The Aurora theater where the Batman shooting occurred also had a gun-free policy," Jim Manley, an attorney representing students who sued the university over its gun ban, told NPR. "But these policies don't disarm criminals, they disarm law-abiding citizens who see the sign and respect the law and say, 'I'm not going to carry in this place because the law doesn't allow it.'" "Gun-free zones are defense-free zones," David Burnett, president of Students for Concealed Carry said earlier. "Announcing your campus is gun-free is a reckless invitation to psychopaths." The lawsuit against the university was filed in 2008 by students who felt they had a right to protect themselves on campus in the event of a mass shooting event like the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre that left 33 people dead. Joe Ramsburger, an incoming CU freshman from Florida, told NPR that he understands why guns are prohibited in his dorm. "Especially with what happened in Aurora... and Virginia Tech... you never know what's going to happen." Cindy Rosenthal, who was on CU's campus helping her freshman daughter move in, told NPR that guns on campus make her "very uncomfortable." "I definitely would not feel safe if they allowed guns on campus, in the halls. I would not be comfortable with that at all." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 10:41:51 -0700 From: "Clive Edwards" <45clive@telus.net> Subject: RE: Gun culture trumps gun control By Matthew Claxton <002401cd827d$5a20e300$0e62a900$@xplornet.com> In-Reply-To: <002401cd827d$5a20e300$0e62a900$@xplornet.com> Thread-Index: AQHLqE5l27oxyxcGrevn7bAZrRdSKJdtqTEwgADRLuA= Sender: owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca Precedence: normal Reply-To: cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca >Of course, if our gun owner is a responsible one, then his gun is A) locked in a gun safe, B) is not loaded, and C) has a trigger lock or is otherwise >unable to fire. After all, he wouldn't want the kids to get their hands on the gun, right? By the time you've gotten the gun, found the key for the >trigger lock, and loaded the ammunition, the hypothetical hockey-masked killer has already carted away your head for his trophy case. This is perhaps the major misunderstanding about so called "safe storage" - that the gun is locked away at all times. In fact, if you are home the gun could be considered "not in storage" for any number of reasons, including for personal protection. While the law states that a gun may only be loaded where it may legally be fired, that part of the law is conditional. In an emergency, there is no place in Canada a gun may not be fired, nor even any limit on who may fire it, as the late Dave Tomlinson frequently pointed out. To comply fully with the law the gun needs to be under your care and control and the magazine should be outside the gun (next to it on the night stand or in your pocket) until needed. Only a fool is so pedantic that he tries to second guess the law in such a way as to put himself or those under his care in physical danger. >The other scenario is based on the notion that young women should carry guns to ward off rapists: the "dark alley" scenario. Would a few rapists get a >deserved gunshot wound if all women were armed? Yes. But the majority of rapes do not happen in dark alleys or deserted parking garages, contrary to the >Hollywood myth. Most rape victims know their rapist. Guns cannot stop child molestation or date rape. In addition, a gun can be taken away. >Self-defense training, better security and policing, and cellphones are harder to turn on victims. > >mclaxton@langleyadvance.com This is like saying most fraud and extortion is the result of legal action and since you can't do anything about that aspect, you shouldn't protect yourself against thugs who want to charge you "fire insurance" lest your restaurant burn down. While a gun locked away in "safe storage" cannnot protect against crime, a person able to put him or her self in the criminal's shoes should be able to come up with a viable solution to the fact that criminals always get to choose the time, place and victim while they consider safe storage to be an impediment to their victim and not to themselves. mclaxton is just another sorry ass caught up in the false yet deadly web of social engineering. Clive ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #230 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator's email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)