From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #467 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Precedence: normal owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, January 10 2013 Volume 15 : Number 467 In this issue: [none] [none] [none] [none] [none] [none] [none] [none] [none] [none] [none] [none] [none] [none] [none] [none] [none] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: From: Subject: [none] Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 09:39:37 -0700 From: 10x@telus.net Subject: Re: Letter: Debating the ethics of hunting At , you wrote: > >Date: Wed, January 9, 2013 3:33 pm >From: "Dennis R. Young" >Subject: Letter: Debating the ethics of hunting > > >Letter: Debating the ethics of hunting >BY C. GRINDLEY-FERRIS, COQUITLAM NOW JANUARY 9, 2013 >http://www.thenownews.com/news/Debating+ethics+hunting/7794615/story.html > >I will never understand the mentality of people wanting to kill, but I guess >it will continue until the end of time. I fail to see the reason in allowing >hunters to fulfill their blood lust on dikes that families with pets >frequent every 10 minutes or so. I fail to see the morality of those who condemn hunters while eating meat from animals that where herded into a chute, hit with a bolt driven by compressed gas, and had their throats slit so they can bleed to death. Those who eat cereal crops should take a look at the wildlife that dies of starvation because of the desiccants sprayed to ripen the crops that also kill the understory of weeds and growth that wildlife use to survive the winter. Which is better, having someone kill your animal so you can have meat on your menu? Or having a farmer use agricultural practices so that wild animals starve to death so you can have breakfast cereal or bread? Just because people do not see this from the isles of a grocery store does not mean their food has an ecological price that decimates wildlife. ------------------------------ Date: From: Subject: [none] Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 10:44:09 -0600 From: "Joe Gingrich" Subject: NRA: 100,000 new members after Sandy Hook shooting http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/nra-100k-new-members-after-sandy-hook-86001.html NRA: 100,000 new members after Sandy Hook shooting By KATIE GLUECK | 1/10/13 9:35 AM EST The National Rifle Association has gained more than 100,000 new members in the last 18 days, the organization told POLITICO's Playbook on Thursday. The number of paid new members jumped from 4.1 million to 4.2 million in that time frame. "Our goal is to get to 5 million before this debate is over," the NRA told POLITICO's Mike Allen. Those comments come as Vice President Joe Biden gears up to meet with NRA representatives on Thursday to discuss gun policy after the Dec. 14 mass shooting in Newtown, Conn. triggered a national conversation on the subject. "We are willing to talk to policymakers about any reasonable proposals and plans," an NRA official said in the Playbook report, regarding the upcoming meeting with Biden. "However, the NRA is hearing not just from Beltway elites and the chattering class, but real Americans all over the country that are hoping the NRA is not going to compromise on any of the principles of the Second Amendment, nor are we going to support banning guns. But we're willing to listen." To join the NRA, would-be members must pay $25. In return, they are eligible for a "Rosewood Handle Knife, Black & Gold Duffel Bag or Digital Camo Duffel Bag," the Playbook report said. ------------------------------ Date: From: Subject: [none] Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 10:50:39 -0600 From: "Joe Gingrich" Subject: JPFO Article: Hell No JPFO Article: Hell No By John Caile USCCA. December 27th, 2013 Article source: https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/article-of-the-week/hell-no Following the gruesome massacre of school children in Connecticut, news stories have shared a common theme -- that gun owners are now "ready to compromise" on guns. Unfortunately, too many of those on our side seem intimidated by the media, and unwilling to fight back. But they are making a huge mistake, both in terms of public safety, and our freedoms. Anyone who understands anything at all about violent crime knows that no assault weapons ban or restriction on high-capacity magazines is going to save a single life or reduce crime in any way. This is not a matter of opinion -- we now have decades of data, from the Federal ban and our "laboratories of gun control" (the States with extreme restrictions on lawful gun owners). And the results are clear and unmistakable -- gun control actually increases the probability that one will be the victim of a violent crime. (See: Chicago, Detroit, Washington D.C., or Los Angeles). Ditto the imaginary "gun show loophole" -- the bogus claim that felons and other prohibited people can just walk into a gun show and buy a gun from an unlicensed dealer. But research shows that felons DON'T GO TO GUN SHOWS, at least not in any measurable numbers. They buy their guns from the black market almost exclusively. The Force Science Research Institute at the University of Minnesota (Mankato State) reported on a 5-year nationwide study by the FBI of over 800 incidents involving the most dangerous armed street criminals, and concluded: "Contrary to media-generated myth, not a single weapon in the study was purchased at a gun show." But, hey, why listen to the FBI? In reality, the "gun show loophole" is a Trojan Horse, since an unlicensed dealer is ANY private citizen who sells a gun, including you and me. The real purpose behind this scheme is to mandate a background check on every private sale. Note that this will likely require going to a gun store and paying a fee. This latest bit of bureaucratic nonsense will not prevent a single felon or mentally disturbed whacko from getting a gun -- they will NOT subject themselves to any background check. It is simply a way to institute a back-door gun registration scheme. Besides, it is already a FELONY for anyone to sell a gun to a felon or a juvenile. Buying a gun on behalf of any prohibited person (the so-called "straw purchase") is also a felony. The other issue is the genuine threat to our liberty. The moment we give even the slightest concession to the gun control argument, we essentially agree with their position. But neither you nor I, nor any of the nation's 90 Million gun owners, had anything to do with the Sandy Hook School shooting. Giving in is always interpreted as guilt. Ironically, the gun issue could be a hanging curve ball to Republicans, just BEGGING to be knocked out of the park. All they would have to do is grow a pair and throw the entire issue back in the faces of Democrats: "Your ridiculous 'gun free zones' have failed! It's time to do what's necessary to protect our kids -- not stripping lawful gun owners of their rights!" Americans would cheer. Because in case you haven't noticed, while the talking heads on TV are talking "reasonable restrictions" the American public is reacting by flocking to gun stores, buying up the very guns that the liberal Democrats are targeting -- those evil military style carbines, many of them driving cars with "Obama 2012? stickers on them! And these same people are going to vote in 2014 . The pressure to sound "reasonable" and "willing to compromise" is enormous. But instead of knuckling under to more gun control, we should all be taking the fight to the enemy. And that means every one of us MUST start by demanding that our legislators, whether Democrat or Republican, refuse to go along with ANY new gun laws. Then demand that they begin repealing many of the 20,000 largely ineffective gun laws that we already have on the books. Because, sometimes, giving in is just wrong, and the only honorable answer is "no." Better yet, "Hell, NO!" Yours in Freedom, The Liberty Crew at JPFO Protecting you by creating solutions to destroy "gun control" ------------------------------ Date: From: Subject: [none] Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 11:56:44 -0500 From: Bill Subject: assault rifle at Newtown? You 'may' be right, but your not waiting for the truth or the end of the confusion to come from the American Government are you? If so, you will be waiting a long, long, time! Probably forever! Bill ------- REMEMBER: If you don't fight for your rights NOW, you may not have the right to fight for them later! Subject: Re: assault rifle at Newtown? From:jyoung@aernet.ca Date: Wed, January 9, 2013 1:37 pm Re: assault rifle at Newtown? Jules, there have been numerous conflicting reports as to the number; class; and style of firearms allegedly used @ Sandy Hook. It's been very confusing, and I'm afraid you're only adding to that. Cheers. ------------------------------ Date: From: Subject: [none] Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 11:10:38 -0600 From: "Joe Gingrich" Subject: Hagel brothers still burdened by Vietnam War http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/hagel-brothers-still-burdened-by-vietnam-war-85981.html A 4 part series about the Hagel Bros. in Vietnam War Hagel brothers still burdened by Vietnam War By LEIGH MUNSIL | 1/9/13 11:47 PM EST "I remember sitting on that track, another track, waiting for the dust-off [helicopter] to come and medical evacuation, and thinking to myself, you know, if I ever get out of all of this, I am going to do everything I can to assure that war is the last resort that we, a nation, a people, calls upon to settle a dispute," he said. "The horror of it, the pain of it, the suffering of it. People just don't understand it unless they've been through it. "There's no glory, only suffering in war." ------------------------------ Date: From: Subject: [none] Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 09:27:25 -0800 From: Todd Birch Subject: The US Slide Towards Gun Control - Canadian Style When Biden uses terminology like: " ... if your actions result in only saving one life, they're worth taking ...", and "... by executive order ...", and "...national data bank ...", Canadian gun owners recognize the pattern. During the Canadian "debate", we heard "...If it saves only one life ..." as justification for spending $2 billion on the long gun registry, an argument difficult to oppose in front of grieving families. This emboldened the anti-gun lobby to forge ahead with the program. We saw numerable "orders in council" enacted that proscribed certain guns and accessories with the RCMP as sole arbiters of what was allowable, and endured the record keeping of the CFC that criminalized many thousands. The American version is amazing for the lack of originality, the NIH (not invented here) syndrome notwithstanding. And the evidence that it doesn't work proving the adage: "When the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts". But then, neither the US or Canada saw fit to change much of what they adopted from the 1938 Nazi Gun Laws when drafting gun control legislation. The conspiracy theorists are leaning towards massive non-compliance, which will pit resisters against the agents of the US government (BATF, FBI, CIA), a scenario right out of "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross, but on a much larger scale. Is this realistic or merely the stuff of a few Hollywood movies starring hypocritical, gun-wielding actors that vehemently and stridently oppose the provisions of the 2nd amendment on talk shows while raking in the cash. Stay tuned ..... the fast forward button is about to be pushed ..... ------------------------------ Date: From: Subject: [none] Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 10:45:24 -0700 From: 10x@telus.net Subject: Re: NRA: 100,000 new members after Sandy Hook shooting At 10:44 AM 10/01/2013 -0600, you wrote: > >Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 10:44:09 -0600 >From: "Joe Gingrich" >Subject: NRA: 100,000 new members after Sandy Hook shooting > > >http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/nra-100k-new-members-after-sandy-hook -86001.html > >NRA: 100,000 new members after Sandy Hook shooting > >By KATIE GLUECK | 1/10/13 9:35 AM EST >The National Rifle Association has gained more than 100,000 new members in >the last 18 days, the organization told POLITICO's Playbook on Thursday. Next the rather dumb media and anti gun crowd will start to claim that this horrific event was all part of an NRA membership drive.... ------------------------------ Date: From: Subject: [none] Subject: Re: AR in the school From: jyoung@aernet.ca Date: Thu, January 10, 2013 11:45 am Jules, in this case, I am not mistaken. Jules, it's a video -- you need to listen AND watch. Please FF to 1:58: "There remains no evidence that a Bushmaster AR-15 was inside the school or in the car allegedly driven to the scene by suspect, Adam Lanza." Also, what are your thoughts with respect what we are able to see going on in the trunk of the Honda? Surely you agree that is *NOT* the action of an AR being cycled. Jules, it is what appears to be a shotgun. Cheers. ------Original Message------ From: JULES SOBRIAN Subject: AR in the school Sent: Jan 10, 2013 10:11 > The one you've included here absolutely does NOT state "it (the "AR") > was in the perp's mother's car outside the school". Nor does the video > show that. The video shows what appears to be a shotgun. > > Jules, there have been numerous conflicting reports as to the number; > class; and style of firearms allegedly used @ Sandy Hook. It's been > very confusing, and I'm afraid you're only adding to that. JYoung must be mistaken. I have just listened to the video one more time and the announcer states that the 'assault rifle was in the car not in the school. The only guns found in the school were 4 handguns. Jules ------------------------------ Date: From: Subject: [none] Subject: Re: assault rifle at Newtown? From: jyoung@aernet.ca Date: Thu, January 10, 2013 11:47 am Re: assault rifle at Newtown? Watch the video, Bill. That's not an AR action being cycled. And that's not a 5.56 cartridge being ejected. Cheers! ------Original Message------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 11:56:44 -0500 From: Bill Subject: assault rifle at Newtown? You 'may' be right, but your not waiting for the truth or the end of the confusion to come from the American Government are you? If so, you will be waiting a long, long, time! Probably forever! Bill ------- REMEMBER: If you don't fight for your rights NOW, you may not have the right to fight for them later! Subject: Re: assault rifle at Newtown? From:jyoung@aernet.ca Date: Wed, January 9, 2013 1:37 pm Re: assault rifle at Newtown? Jules, there have been numerous conflicting reports as to the number; class; and style of firearms allegedly used @ Sandy Hook. It's been very confusing, and I'm afraid you're only adding to that. Cheers. ------------------------------ Date: From: Subject: [none] Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 09:57:04 -0800 From: Todd Birch Subject: re: "AR in the school" Jeez, Jules .... Since when do you regard anything said by an on-the-scene television news reporter as being accurate and informed on ANY topic, especially at the scene of a tragic shooting? Any person who has taken the firearms safety course or CORE training had no trouble identifying the gun in the trunk as a pump action shotgun. If there was any misinformation, it was coming from the police spokesman and readily disproven in any forensic analysis. It is to be hoped that the media will be held accountable for hyping gun related violence, but it is unlikely any time soon - "if it bleeds, it leads" being the dictum. At coffee, some red-neck neighbours and I constructed a TV news scenario any one of us could fit into: Police have reported cordoning off a rural "compound" (read chain link gate and split rail fencing) and have been seen coming out of a "bunker" (read root cellar) with boxes of unknown material (read seed potatoes and nitrate fertilizer). Several firearms (read a Cooey .22 single shot rifle, pump action shotgun and a .303 military "assault rifle") have also been removed from the residence, along with several thousand rounds of ammunition (read two bricks of Wal*Mart .22 ammo, four boxes of 12 ga. and 20 rds of .303). Neighbours report that the arrested couple were quiet, keeping to themselves, but a little odd about preserving their privacy and not attending community events. Regretably, police found it necessary to shoot and kill the couple's two dogs as they bounded up the driveway towards them as they approached the house. If you can't relate to this, then you live in a different reality, the "twilight zone" of a once sane Canadian society. ------------------------------ Date: From: Subject: [none] Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 14:00:39 -0400 Subject: Ventura video Sender: Al Muir It appears many missed my post on Jan 7/13. There are at least two video segments from the show on the internet. Both those segments have the same audience response. It is quite obvious if you see both clips that one of them was edited( cut and spliced). To me it looks like the one below. I would not use any of them without seeing the content of the complete interview to see where the audience response actually occured. > Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 15:14:47 -0600 > From: Larry James Fillo > Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #460 > > > Ventura wins the audience support completely in his hands up vote. > and in front of a CNN audience, too! > > Apparently, John Lott is annoyed that they cut his on air time once > he lists facts and references everyone. The Aurora shooter chose > the only one of six showing the Batman movie for many miles around > that had a "no guns" policy. > > The sound of escaping air from the media's hot air balloon is audible. > > On 8-Jan-13, at 12:41 PM, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > > > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 15:53:30 -0800 > > From: j davies > > Subject: Jesse Ventura disassembles Piers Morgan on "gun control" > > > > > > Jesse Ventura disassembles Piers Morgan on "gun control" > > > > video: > > > > http://www.americanthinker.com/video/2012/12/jesse_ventura_crushes_piers_morgan_on_2nd_amendment.html ------------------------------ Date: From: Subject: [none] Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 10:28:52 -0800 From: "Clive Edwards" <45clive@telus.net> Subject: RE: 100,000 new members after Sandy Hook shooting > "We are willing to talk to policymakers about any reasonable proposals > and plans," an NRA official said in the Playbook report, regarding the > upcoming meeting with Biden. "However, the NRA is hearing not just > from Beltway elites and the chattering class, but real Americans all > over the country that are hoping the NRA is not going to compromise on > any of the principles of the Second Amendment, nor are we going to > support banning guns. But we're willing to listen." If only we could believe the NRA. The truth is, they have been involved in engineering or supporting most of the "gun control" legislation at a national level in the US. That is not to say the NRA doesn't do excellent and valuable work on a day to day basis, especially where education, training and keeping the fight alive are concerned. > To join the NRA, would-be members must pay $25. In return, they are > eligible for a "Rosewood Handle Knife, Black & Gold Duffel Bag or Digital > Camo Duffel >Bag," the Playbook report said. The most valuable benefit of membership, aside from representation, is "the American Rifleman". Probably the best gun magazine out there. I am a life member of both the NRA and the NFA, so obviously I support both organizations, especially in the long run, although I don't trust either to not compromise away our rights. The National Rifle Association of the United Kingdom of Great Britain certainly sold out its members. I support Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership and Gun Owners of America to show the NRA the way when it comes to commitment and lack of compromise. The best educational material comes from JPFO. The anti-gunners would never try to involve JPFO or GOA in a compromise oriented dialogue. Clive Edwards "When a madman or gang banger goes on a spree, the question "Why did he have a gun?" is always asked instead of "Why didn't anyone else?" - Todd Birch ------------------------------ Date: From: Subject: [none] Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 12:32:56 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: U.K. vs. US crime stats An analysis and comparison of U.K. crime stats with the U.S. of A. , which is interesting. Anyone who follows the news out of the U.K. knows parts of it have high rates of violent crime, increasing where citizens are subject to intimidation for criminal or political purposes. The London riots where in part due to organized crime, who profited from looting stores/warehouses while the police were otherwise occupied. http://www.youtube.com/watch?featureplayer_embedded&vN9efqhGBHZI ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Of course, what Piers Morgan and the hoplophobes fear is the scientific method question, does the introduction of highly restrictive gun laws lower the rate of violent crime or increase it or have no measurable effect? Do ordinary citizens, as compared to violent criminals, use firearms to protect life and to avoid suffering grievous bodily harm or death? They avoid that because over the last two decades with the spread of the CCW system in the U.S. and a significant increase in the number of firearms in the U.S. the homicide rate and rate of violent crime has gone down. Thus the MSM intent is not to inform but to support their ideological position, here in Canada there is little media competition prior to the internet, though if SunnewsTV has had a beneficial effect far above their so far limited but growing audience. ------------------------------ Date: From: Subject: [none] Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 10:39:16 -0800 From: "Clive Edwards" <45clive@telus.net> Subject: RE: AR in the school > JYoung must be mistaken. I have just listened to the video one more > time and the announcer states that the 'assault rifle was in the car > not in the school. The only guns found in the school were 4 handguns. > Jules IF there is a disconnect between the audio and the video (and I have not seen the video in question) there are two possible reasons. One, the announcer is not telling the truth (not necessarily lying, just not familiar with firearms). Two, news editors always want visuals and may have dropped in an unrelated picture or video clip (again, possibly innocently) in order to make the story "more visual" Of course the truth MAY involve conscious lying and audience manipulation. Clive Edwards "What is a slave? He's someone who is deprived by force of the fruits of his labor." - Doug Casey In most cases force isn't necessary. ------------------------------ Date: From: Subject: [none] Subject: Forward thinking and it's resulting predictions Sender: Al Muir Date: Post C-19 I do not know or care which of us predicted it first but these mass shootings underline the flawed premise of the "more later" policy many Canadian gun owners advocated in regards to C-19. Perhaps now would be a good time to discuss what we squandered with C-19 and if there is any way to fix it. Maybe the "more later"s that were so prevalent on this forum could tell us how the next tragedy will help us to get "more later". I know what our predictions on the subject were but I have not heard from any of the "more later"s yet. From: Mikeack Date:20130109 Re: Domestic enemies of the Constitution ... Congress as part of gun control plan On 2013-01-09 17:22, Dennis R. Young wrote: > Biden said, adding "we haven't decided what that is yet." Oh yes they have. They just haven't figured out how to spin it yet. What they need is yet another tragedy. Wait for it folks. When it happens, you heard me predict it first. -- M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) Rural Family Physician, Sherbrooke, NS mikeack@ns.sympatico.ca "Hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst". ------------------------------ Date: From: Subject: [none] Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 12:48:10 -0600 From: "Joe Gingrich" Subject: Wyoming Lawmakers Propose GUN Protection' Legislation? http://k2radio.com/wyoming-lawmakers-propose-gun-protection-legislation/ Wyoming Lawmakers Propose Gun Protection' Legislation By Rich Denison Several Wyoming lawmakers are proposing legislation designed to protect gun-owners from any potential federal firearm ban. The "Firearms Protection Act" bill, introduced this week, would make any federal law banning semi-automatic firearms or limiting the size of gun magazines unenforceable within the state's boundaries. Anyone trying to enforce a federal gun ban could face felony charges under the proposal. It also includes a provision allowing the Wyoming Attorney General's office to defend any state resident against any federal firearm ban. Read the Complete 'Firearm Protection Act' http://k2radio.com/wyoming-house-bill-no-hb0104-firearm-protection-act/ ------------------------------ Date: From: Subject: [none] Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 10:50:19 -0800 From: "Clive Edwards" <45clive@telus.net> Subject: RE: Make guns smart - CNN.com > Guns should also be designed to sense where they are being aimed. > Artificial vision and optical sensing technology can be adapted from > military and medical communities. Sensory data can be used by built-in > software to >disable firing if the gun is pointed at a child or someone > holding a child. That would really have helped Randy Weaver's wife, wouldn't it? Not to mention the members of the Branch Davidians. Clive ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #467 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)