From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #801 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Precedence: normal owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Cdn-Firearms Digest Saturday, July 6 2013 Volume 15 : Number 801 In this issue: SUN NEWS - RCMP wrong to seize guns MORE OUTDOORS NEWS RCMP commish asks for investigation into High River, Atla., ... Re: Bernard mig gun- Digest V15 #799 Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #799 ‘She grabbed my arm with her mouth and flung me through the ... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, July 5, 2013 2:20 pm From: "Dennis R. Young" Subject: SUN NEWS - RCMP wrong to seize guns SUN NEWS - RCMP wrong to seize guns [Watch embedded videos] Someone must be held to account BRIAN LILLEY | QMI AGENCY - 7:30 am, July 5th, 2013 http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/straighttalk/archives/2013/07/20130705-073054.html The Mounties did a very bad thing last week and now rather than own up to it, they are trying to shoot the messenger. As the RCMP went from home to home in the town of High River, Alta., ostensibly to search for people in distress, they also seized hundreds of firearms. The Mounties claim they only seized rifles and shotguns that were in plain view or unsafely stored and that they were just holding them for safe keeping. Garbage. What the RCMP did was violate the basic civil rights of the people of High River, and whether you are a gun owner or not, that should concern you. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees that "everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure." By seizing guns from locked homes without a warrant, the RCMP, regardless of their stated intent, were engaging in "unreasonable search and seizure." Defenders of the RCMP have claimed that the Horsemen were simply acting under the law, that the Alberta Emergency Management Act was in force and therefore the police actions were valid. Once again: Garbage. The Emergency Management Act clearly states that it supersedes all provincial legislation except the Alberta Bill of Rights and the Alberta Human Rights Act. Right at the beginning of the Alberta Bill of Rights it states that everyone has "the right of the individual to liberty, security of the person and enjoyment of property, and the right not to be deprived thereof except by due process of law." Seizing someone's firearm from their home and then promising to give it back if they can prove it is theirs is not "due process of law." "A man's home is his castle" is the old saying and dating hundreds of years, neither the king nor his agents, like the police, have been allowed to enter without a warrant. The police say they were looking for people in distress. Fine, but why seize private property while doing it? Well, here the police say the guns were in the open and therefore unsafely stored. I don't believe them. Cam Fleury told Sun News on Thursday that his home, situated in the highest part of High River, suffered no flooding damage at all but the RCMP had still busted down the door and then opened the locked closet where his gun safe was. They didn't meddle with his safe but it was obvious to him they went looking for it. "There was really no reason for them to enter any of these houses," Fleury said of his high and dry neighbourhood. Despite several stories from residents that guns were taken from hiding places in their homes, behind dressers, under blankets inside closets, the Mounties claim they only took firearms laying out in plain view. I'd like details on exactly what the RCMP mean by "plain view," but they have decided not to speak to Sun News Network any longer because they claim our coverage of the issue is problematic. Translation: We won't believe their BS without some proof. This is not a trivial matter of interest only to gun owners. Each of us have certain rights guaranteed by the Charter that governments are supposed to uphold. In High River, the RCMP violated those rights, the highest law in the land, and they think they can get away with it by refusing to answer questions. They're wrong. Someone must be held to account. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, July 5, 2013 2:23 pm From: "Dennis R. Young" Subject: MORE OUTDOORS NEWS Gun Show to fill curling rink By David Feil, Hanna Herald - Wednesday, July 3, 2013 9:04:32 MDT AM http://www.hannaherald.com/2013/07/03/gun-show-to-fill-curling-rink With over 30 years of convention experience the Gun Show & Sale continues to bring a wide variety of collections and merchandise to Hanna. The Gun Show and Sale will once again be in the Curling Rink at 501 3 St W on July 20 and 21, with doors opening at 9 a.m. and closing at 5 p.m. on Saturday and around 3 p.m. on Sunday. The 200 tables set up around the rink will be filled with long-time participants who have been coming out for every year for well over 20 years as well as a dozen new vendors who will be both selling. Some of the regulars will include a display featuring a collection of Winchester rifles and an assortment of antiques, from rifles to horseshoes, brought up from Medicine Hat, though people come from as far as Ontario to display their collections and sell their wares. The range of guns available to purchase are mostly along the lines of rifles and shot guns of all calibers, including collectibles and some you might take on hunting tours in Africa. Many vendors are also bringing along computers so that they can give demonstrations. Apart from guns there will also be items like coins, stamps, saddles, sporting goods and knives (both kitchen and hunting) available for both viewing and purchase. There are also vendors who bring toys for young kids to play with and are have model cars and planes that might interest them. Admission will be $5 at the door with children under 10 accompanied by an adult getting in free. Proceeds will be going toward this years graduating students who will be helping the Gun Club set up tables on Wednesday and taking them down Sunday. ------------------------------- Discharge bylaw needs cleaning up BY TERRY FARREL, ABBOTSFORD TIMES JULY 4, 2013 http://www.abbotsfordtimes.com/travel/Discharge+bylaw+needs+cleaning/8617152/story.html#ixzz2YBVsuTXC In the end, cooler heads prevailed at Tuesday's District of Mission council meeting, and, particularly when guns are involved, cool heads are imperative. Council voted in favour of striking up an advisory committee to study the contentious proposed firearms discharge bylaw and the bylaw itself has been indefinitely shelved. Council members should be applauded on numerous levels. First and foremost, they listened to the constituents when the constituents spoke. That is an important aspect of responsible government. What those against the bylaw have to realize - and the majority do - is that council was not throwing together this bylaw simply to anger gun-toting civilians. Council had the safety of others in the forefront with this bylaw, and kudos for that. Bravo for taking a proactive stance, trying to put an end to the foolishness before someone takes a bullet to the head while fly-fishing on Sayers Lake. Far too often, it takes casualties for governments to amend laws, or build crosswalks or divide highways. It's refreshing to hear of a level of government acting upon something without the pressure of a grieving widow, widower, mother or father spearheading the movement. Sound like fear mongering? It's reality. Unless things change up in the Mission "back 40" there will, one day, be a frontpage story about an innocent geo-cacher or hiker being hit by "friendly fire." That said, council discovered - quite emphatically - that a total ban of discharging firearms within the municipal boundaries is not the answer. Now, for the solution. Start with the area itself. From all accounts, it is becoming quite the eyesore. Forestry workers pick up shell casings "by the thousands" every time they go up there. Old couches and appliances are brought out for target practice. Garbage is strewn about by weekend partiers who do not care about the place. Here's a suggestion: Clean it up. Take some pride in your playground. No, you didn't make the mess. We get that. But one very effective way to show council you want to keep the status quo is by raising the bar, yourself. By showing council that you care about the area, and consider it an actual facility, rather than a hillbilly hangout, you achieve empowerment. As for the entire discharge issue, there are options. It's a large area. Perhaps the shooting can be limited to a certain block, away from where the hikers, geocachers and anglers convene. Perhaps a seasonal ban could be scheduled: No shooting from the May long weekend to Labour Day. The major hunts are not happening then, and those are likely the busiest months out there for non-guntoting people. Maybe all it will take is for the RCMP to set up a few staggered CounterAttack-like campaigns, to deter the rabble-rousers who go up there with illegal arms and shoot up the cedar trees. Such options are exactly what the proposed advisory board will draw up. And of course, there's still the option of an outright ban on discharging firearms. But if those using the area most take it upon themselves to clean up after not only themselves, but also all those who abuse the area, it will show decision-makers that you care; that you're not part of the problem. You are part of the solution. ---------------------------------------- Mission gun bylaw on hold BY TERRY FARRELL, ABBOTSFORD TIMES JULY 4, 2013 http://www.abbotsfordtimes.com/news/Mission+bylaw+hold/8617148/story.html#ixzz2YBVLrbc9 The contentious gun discharge bylaw took a turn on Tuesday, as District of Mission council voted in favour of forming an advisory committee to deal with issue. Council arrived at the decision based on the overwhelming public response to the bylaw, which would have seen a total ban on the discharge of firearms within the municipal boundary. Council gave the first three readings of the proposed bylaw at its May 21 session, and called for public input. Approximately 150 people packed council chambers for an emotional meeting on June 19, and 37 people spoke on the issue. As a result of the meeting, council resolved to form a committee, which is to include a wide spectrum of area citizens, to address the issue. "The average citizen, I believe, needs to be (part of the committee) as well," said Mayor Ted Adlem."I respect the people who came forward (to speak at the public input meeting), but they are not the only people that live in the district of Mission." Gun enthusiasts have been allowed to partake in legal shooting activities - both of the hunting and non-hunting varieties - in the rural areas of the district since the introduction of the (existing) 1993 Discharge of Firearms Bylaw. The new bylaw was proposed largely due to safety concerns surrounding the activity in the area. "I do agree that we tried to take it (bylaw) too far, too fast, before we had the public meeting," said Counc. Jeff Jewell. "I personally take this all as a learning experience and do plan for us to get better as we move forward. But, this (forming a committee) is, I think, a very positive choice. --------------------------------------- Province, rod and gun clubs to provide youth with hunting workshops Newfoundland and Labrador - Published on July 5, 2013 - Nicholas Mercer www.env.gov.nl.ca/env/wildlife/education/index.html Rod and gun clubs around the province are opening their doors to youth in the coming weeks in an effort to further educate young people on the finer points of hunting. Both the St. John's Rod and Gun Club and the Upper Humber Rod and Gun Association in Deer Lake, in co-operation with the Department of Environment and Conservation will be offering Youth Hunter Skills Workshops on July 13 (Deer Lake) and July 20 (St. John's). The workshops are geared for youth ages 12 to 17 and those who attend must be accompanied by a parent or guardian. Over the one-day workshop, participants will become familiar with hunter safety techniques for shotgun and rifle shooting, archery and bow-hunting techniques, outdoor safety and survival skills, along with lessons in wildlife conservation and management. "We are pleased to work collaboratively with these organizations to provide these workshops. Hunting is a very significant part of our culture and heritage, and plays an important role in wildlife conservation and management," said Tom Hedderson, the minister of environment and conservation. To ensure space is available, participants must pre-register by contacting: . St. John's Rod and Gun Club - telephone at 709-722-5420 or email at hjacobs@bellaliant.net ; . Upper Humber Rod and Gun Association - telephone at 709-686-5228 or email at mail4upperhumber@gmail.com . For more information about the other hunter and trapper education and outreach programs delivered in the province visit www.env.gov.nl.ca/env/wildlife/education/index.html or contact the Wildlife Division by phone at 709-637-2006. ------------------------------------ MNR no longer oversees coyote kills in municipalities HEATHER BOA News Now HURON COUNTY http://www.huronnewsnow.ca/2013/07/05/mnr-no-longer-oversees-coyote-kills-in-municipalities/ The local animal control officer will no longer have to wait for authorization from the Ministry of Natural Resources to hire hunters to hunt coyotes and other animals that kill livestock or damage property, following changes introduced July 1. "This is one thing that's really a plus situation as far as I'm concerned," Bob Trick, the animal control officer for many municipalities in Huron County, told council recently. He said since the retirement of an MNR staff member from the Clinton office nearly a year ago, authorizations are sent to the Guelph office and approvals could take as long as three weeks. "Time is of the essence," he said. "In three weeks' time, the coyote might be somewhere else or have killed more livestock." According to a fact sheet circulated by the ministry, it will no longer play a role in reviewing and approving hunting and trapping of such as coyotes, wolves, beavers, raccoons and skunks for municipalities "that wish to provide financial incentives to licensed hunters and trappers to control furbearing mammals in an effort to reduce human-wildlife conflict." However, the county may be caught flat-footed with the announced change. Its existing bylaw to control nuisance coyotes is now outdated because it requires authorization from the ministry. The next opportunity to approve a new bylaw comes in September, which is the next scheduled meeting date for the county's council. In 2011, there were 11 claims in municipalities Trick works in. In 2012, there were 23, and this year there are eight to date. CAO Brenda Orchard said she will seek clarification from the ministry on how to proceed over the summer months. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, July 5, 2013 3:30 pm From: "Dennis R. Young" Subject: RCMP commish asks for investigation into High River, Atla., ... ...gun seizures SUN NEWS: RCMP commish asks for investigation into High River, Atla., gun seizures BY DANIEL PROUSSALIDIS, PARLIAMENTARY BUREAU - UPDATED: FRIDAY, JULY 05, 2013 03:26 PM EDT http://www.torontosun.com/2013/07/05/rcmp-commish-asks-for-investigation-into-high-river-atla-gun-seizures OTTAWA -- After a week of fury in High River, Alta., RCMP Commissioner Bob Paulson has requested an investigation into the seizure of guns from homes during the flood evacuations. Paulson has written to the Commission for Public Complaints (CPC), asking the office to look into the actions of officers he credits with a "heroic response" to flooding. "I am quite concerned by the sharp criticism that has arisen in the media with respect to the gun seizures from evacuated homes," Paulson said in the letter. "Naturally this is quite troubling to me, and I am sure to you, as indeed it must be to many Canadians who wonder what was going on in High River." Police ordered all 13,000 residents of High River to leave their flooded town on June 21. Mounties then went to 4,600 homes to look for anyone who couldn't get out of the town or chose not to leave. Along the way they confiscated rifles and shotguns, angering many residents. Within hours of getting Paulson's letter, the CPC kicked off an investigation. "Given the concerns expressed by some members of the public and the ensuing media coverage of RCMP actions in High River, the Commission will examine whether the members' actions complied with all appropriate policies, procedures, guidelines and statutory requirements," Commission interim chair Ian McPhail said in a statement. Earlier this week, the Mounties insisted their actions were in line with the Alberta Emergency Measures Act. They have already begun to return seized weapons to their owners. --with files from Damien Wood ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 16:46:42 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: Re: Bernard mig gun- Digest V15 #799 This is hilarious. Please approach SunnewsTV with it. it's the kind of stuff they love. Public humiliation of stupidity has an open season and no bag limits. Urban B.C. has, I understand, an over supply smoke addled craniums. Some of whom have had untoward personal incidents with glue guns stuck up their nostrils. Bernarwields.com lists those mig guns coming in semi-automatic, And the Q series is listed as centerfire. !!! Very,Very Scary. NWEST will scrambling F-18s and arriving in Chinook helicopters. On 2013-07-05, at 10:39 AM, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2013 20:16:42 -0700 > From: Capn' ECO > Subject: UsedVictoria.com ad removed (Restricted Item): Bernard mig ... > > ...gun > > > My mig gun ad was disallowed on usedvictoria.com. I had 5 or so pictures > of the cable and both ends and a model tag on the cable. Good thing I > wasn't trying to sell gunney sacs, or spray bombs. What about spray > guns, grease guns, staple guns (real killers), cap guns, tree marking > guns, impact guns, price marking guns, ear tag guns, tatoo guns.......... > seriously insane have we become..... > Ian Hamilton > > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > *From:* "adreports@usedeverywhere.com" > *To:* stuuder@yahoo.com > *Sent:* Thursday, July 4, 2013 7:00 PM > *Subject:* UsedVictoria.com ad removed (Restricted Item): Bernard > mig gun > > Hi, I'm a moderator for UsedVictoria.com > . I'm sorry, we cannot accept your ad > because it contains an item defined as Restricted by our Terms of Use. > > Please click this link to review the Terms Of Use: > http://www.usedvictoria.com/help#TermsOfUse. You are invited to post > other ads if they follow the Terms Of Use. > > Thanks for your understanding and thanks for using UsedVictoria.com! > > > Below is your ad: > > Bernard mig gun > > about 13 feet long, could use a nozzle, was working fine, but just > did an upgrade to a smaller miller unit. Think this to be a 4-500A > cable.Came off my millermatic 200 but fits many others. > > Ad ID: [20047527] Date: [July 04, 2013 04:29 PM] > > Phone: [email] > > -- > its a beautiful day, I think I'll skip my meds and stir things up a bit ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 17:01:14 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #799 On 2013-07-05, at 10:39 AM, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > Date: Thu, July 4, 2013 9:41 pm > From: "Dennis R. Young" > Subject: CALGARY HERALD POLL: Was the RCMP wrong to seize people's ... > > ...unsecured guns in High River? > > > CALGARY HERALD POLL: Was the RCMP wrong to seize people's unsecured guns in > High River? > http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinion/index.html > Yes 48.6% (1,357 votes) > No 51.4% (1,435 votes) > Total Votes: 2,792 Let me guess, there are more than 1400 RCMP stationed in Alberta. Also, every home invader and violent criminal in Alberta depends for their livelihood on honest people being disarmed. They vote in polls, too. Add in the anti-hunter militant vegans and I'm surprised at how close the vote was. Given both Premier Alison Redford and Wild Rose leader Danielle Smith leapt to the defense of the looters in High River, again, I'm surprised the poll was this close. It sounds time for Alberta to start hunters/fishers/farmer/rancher party or at least a WildRose internal house cleaning. > > NOTE: Results as of 9:30 pm mt, July 4, 2013 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 19:32:04 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: ‘She grabbed my arm with her mouth and flung me through the ... ...air’: Hikers recount bear attack ‘She grabbed my arm with her mouth and flung me through the air’: Hikers recount bear attack Elaine O'Connor, Postmedia News | 13/07/05 1:09 PM ET Two men are recovering after an attack by a grizzly bear Wednesday morning while hiking on Fernie’s Mt. Proctor in British Columbia. “We are so thankful we’re sitting here, the two of us, making these statements,” Keith Farkas told the Fernie Free Press. “Rather than our wives writing our obituaries.” Conservation officers have yet to locate the bear and have closed the nearby Fairy Creek recreation trail until further notice. The two hikers, Farkas and Brian Braconnier, both Fernie residents in their 30s, were walking near the ridge at about 9 a.m. when the bear — believed to be a female with a cub – charged at one of the men, knocking him to the ground. The hiker was mauled in the arms and chest before he was able to fend the bear off using bear spray. “She hit me four times in total,” Braconnier told the Free Press. “On the third time, she grabbed my arm with her mouth and flung me through the air. When I landed, I grabbed my pepper spray. When she came at me again, she was at an arms distance as I used the bear spray on her. It deterred her but she still ran me over. In two lunges she was back up the hill towards Keith. I could hear him screaming but I couldn’t see a thing.” The grizzly then lunged at the second man, wounding his arms and legs, before he fired a shotgun at the animal at close range and it ran off with its young. Farkas continued to the Free Press, “I was fumbling with the straps on my backpack trying to get the gun off. I was fumbling with the shells trying to load my gun. I managed to load a shell. I saw her paws. I took one shot. She stood up and seemed to writhe in pain like the shot had connected with her. Like lightening, she was around a corner and coming at me airborne from above. She clawed me and pushed me back. I landed on my back in the most terrifying position with my head downhill and my feet uphill. I was screaming. Her face was one foot away from my boot and she turned around and left.” “The two men were traumatized,” said B.C. Conservation officer Sgt. Joe Caravetta. “The bear was doing a natural thing, it was defending its cub,” he said. “The men did nothing wrong either, they were just out hiking … at the wrong place at the wrong time.” The men provided emergency first aid to each other and then had to hike back down the ridge for help. They made their way to Elk Valley Hospital, where they were treated for non-life-threatening injuries. One man was released, the other underwent surgery in a hospital in Lethbridge and has also been released. Wildlife officials are still on the hunt for the bear. Caravetta said searchers located a small blood trail, but were uncertain how badly wounded the animal may be. If they find its body they plan to take the cub to a wildlife rehabilitation centre. If it is found suffering, it will be put down and the cub removed. But Caravetta said the grizzly could be five to 10 kilometres out of range by now. Officials are asking the public to stay away from the site until further notice while the search continues. “It didn’t happen along the trail, but it’s not far away and we just don’t want people to be up there,” Caravetta said. It is the sole grizzly mauling incident in the region so far this year. ======================================= This article provides detail of the attack. Given what is outlined some comments come to mind. Bears are big animals but can move very, very fast when they want to. Each hiker needs to have bear spray in a quick draw holster and the canister needs the plastic tie removed and be ready to fire with one hand, as the other may be in the mouth of the bear. Having a shotgun is great but only if it can be accessed and a round chambered and fired quickly. If it's in a backpack and unloaded that gives it a lot of biting and clawing time. Having a round chambered in some firearms without a cocked hammer to be concerned about but that can be cocked quickly is an advantage in some firearms designs. Also, perhaps a loaded magazine carried on a ready sling of a lightweight short barrelled tactical shotgun, in a ready position should be the method. Grizzlies are extremely powerful and do warrant shotgun slugs in an emergency, and may absorb a number of them when agitated. A .44 magnum pales in comparison to a shotgun slug, but one has to think that if both of these guys had been wearing S&W Mountain revolvers in chest or hip holsters that they may have been able to stop the attack sooner. Or maybe not? The bear didn't break off the attack until it was injured. Though from the description, the bear may have only broken off the attack after it had decided it had stopped the threat to it and it's cub. In some situations there may be a warning before a charge, clearly though not in all. The bear spray from this description may or may not have stopped the first attack. Since the bear immediately went to dispatch the second hiker, that likely was the bear's plan from the start. The sow likely viewed both humans as a potential threat to her and her cub. In Gary Shelton's "Bears:The Deadly Truth" he describes the differences in personality and evolution of Grizzly versus Black bears. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #801 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)