From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #802 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Precedence: normal owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Cdn-Firearms Digest Saturday, July 6 2013 Volume 15 : Number 802 In this issue: "RCMP commissioner calls for probe into seizure of guns ... Missouri governor vetoes bill that nullified federal gun laws Commit any felonies lately? Re: July 5th, an important date in history Clive has a point . RCMP seizure of High River guns sparks probe Canadian born man facing deportation Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #800 Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #800 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 20:48:07 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: "RCMP commissioner calls for probe into seizure of guns ... ...during High River flood" Unless this Commission allows for High River legal council to cross-examine the testimony and raise due process and Charter issues, will this be the first line of a political side-step? "I'm sorry we can't comment as it is before a Commission of Inquiry. " will echo until they think things have died down enough. This sounds like the federal institution doing it's protocol. What indicates a role or status for High River residents and their legal council and Charter issues. Or Richard and Len's favourite, section 337 C.C.C. ? :) Unless this the responsibility for this is laid at the Cdn. Firearms Act and it's regulations, and the gov't. that endorses it, will anything change? In fact, if this Commission of Inquiry endorses the High Handed High River policing it may simply become standard policy across Canada and for all police. Think on that. The Premier and Leader of the Opposition Wild Rose are hostile, the PMO is ducking as fast as it can. The High River residents have been hit hard financially and many no longer trusting their RCMP adds a pile of stress to the vulnerable. We'll see if the CSSA and/or the N.F.A. can organize anything in Alberta. I'd like to see Solomon Friedman and Ed Burlew doing cross-examinations and the Canadian Constitution Foundation, too, their rep. did a very good interview early on. The Calgary Herald broke this story. They deserve some thanks here, too. The locals may have to be their own champions. Perhaps, our legal eagles can comment on the scope of such an inquiry or what they think is needed. Commissioner Paulson must feel like a fireman being on call during wildfire season. Gun Control is like a political STD, that just keeps getting passed on from one generation to the next. ========================================================== After 22 years of these provisions of the "War Measures Act" against civilian ownership of guns, it feels like a different country than it was before. In some respects, I can hardly recognize it. ====================================================== RCMP commissioner calls for probe into seizure of guns during High River flood Canadian Press | 13/07/05 | Last Updated: 13/07/05 5:18 PM ET More from Canadian Press Jeff McIntosh/The Canadian PressMembers of the RCMP return from a boat patrol of a still flooded neighborhood in High River, Alta., Thursday, July 4, 2013. OTTAWA — The head of the RCMP is asking for an investigation into the seizure of firearms from homes evacuated during the Alberta floods last month. Commissioner Bob Paulson has written to the Commission for Public Complaints against the RCMP, asking the agency to look into the matter. The Mounties have said they took the weapons as officers searched homes in the High River flood zone to look for flood victims, pets and anything that might pose a threat to returning residents. They said any firearms they took weren’t properly stored. The Prime Minister’s Office condemned the seizures, saying the RCMP should have been focused on protecting lives and property. In his letter to Ian McPhail, the interim chair of the watchdog agency, Paulson said while he is proud of the way his officers handled the disaster, he is concerned about the reaction to the weapons seizures. “I am quite concerned by the sharp criticism that has arisen in the media with respect to the gun seizures from evacuated homes,” he wrote. “Naturally this is quite troubling to me, and I am sure to you, as indeed it must be to many Canadians who wonder what was going on in High River. “I am writing today therefore, to ask if you would consider a ’chair-initiated complaint’ to permit you to investigate our actions in High River to assess if they were well founded, reasonably executed and in accordance with our policies.” He said the Mounties will co-operate fully with an investigation. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 21:04:15 -0600 From: "Joe Gingrich" Subject: Missouri governor vetoes bill that nullified federal gun laws http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/05/missouri-governor-vetoes-bill-that-nullified-fed-gun-laws/?testlatestnewshttp://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/05/missouri-governor-vetoes-bill-that-nullified-fed-gun-laws/?testlatestnews Missouri governor vetoes bill that nullified federal gun laws Published July 05, 2013 Associated Press JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. - Gov. Jay Nixon vetoed legislation Friday that would have made it a Missouri crime for federal agents to attempt to enforce federal gun laws in the state and could have landed journalists in jail for publishing the names of gun owners. The Democratic governor said the bill passed by the Republican-led Legislature violated the supremacy clause of the U.S. Constitution, which generally gives preference to federal laws over conflicting state ones. He said it also infringed in the First Amendment rights of free speech and press. Some supporters of the legislation had proclaimed it one of the most gun-friendly bills ever passed by a state legislature. Nixon, however, said it could have had extreme consequences. "Under this bill, newspaper editors around the state that annually publish photos of proud young Missourians who harvest their first turkey or deer could be charged with a crime," the governor said in a written statement announcing the veto. Legislators would need a two-thirds vote in both the House and Senate to override Nixon's veto when they return to session in September. The legislation would have made it a misdemeanor crime for federal agents to attempt to enforce any federal gun regulations that "infringe on the people's right to keep and bear arms." It also sought to invalidate some specific federal laws, including a 1934 law that imposed on tax on transferring machine guns or silencers. The measure would have made it a misdemeanor to publish the names of gun owners. Other provisions in the bill would have allowed school teachers and administrators with concealed-gun permits and special training to be designated as a "school protection officer" capable of carrying hidden guns into schools. Missouri's age to obtain a conceal-carry permit would have been lowered to 19 instead of the current 21, and the bill would have allowed people with concealed gun permits to openly carry firearms up to 16 inches long -- even in jurisdictions that have ordinances against the open display of guns. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 21:24:39 -0600 From: "Joe Gingrich" Subject: Commit any felonies lately? http://www.timesdispatch.com/opinion/our-opinion/columnists-blogs/bart-hinkle/hinkle-commit-any-felonies-lately/article_58344fc1-7d4f-584a-8d16-36a1b1f2cdc0.html Hinkle: Commit any felonies lately? Elizabeth Daly went to jail over a case of bottled water. According to the Charlottesville Daily Progress, shortly after 10 p.m. April 11, the University of Virginia student bought ice cream, cookie dough and a carton of LaCroix sparkling water from the Harris Teeter grocery store at the popular Barracks Road Shopping Center. In the parking lot, a half-dozen men and a woman approached her car, flashing some kind of badges. One jumped on the hood. Another drew a gun. Others started trying to break the windows. Daly understandably panicked. With her roommate in the passenger seat yelling “Go, go, go!” Daly drove off, hoping to reach the nearest police station. The women dialed 911. Then a vehicle with lights and sirens pulled them over, and the situation clarified: The people who had swarmed Daly’s vehicle were plainclothes agents of the Virginia Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control. The agents had thought the sparkling water was a 12-pack of beer. Did the ABC’s enforcers apologize? Not in the slightest. They charged Daly with three felonies: two for assaulting an officer (her vehicle had grazed two agents; neither was hurt) and one for eluding the police. Last week, the commonwealth’s attorney dropped the charges. The agents’ excessive display of force is outrageously disproportionate to the offense they mistakenly thought they witnessed: an underage purchase of alcohol. But in a sense, Daly got off easy. A couple of weeks after her ordeal, a 61-year-old man in Tennessee was killed when the police executed a drug raid on the wrong house. A few weeks later, in another wrong-house raid, police officers killed a dog belonging to an Army veteran. These are not isolated incidents; for more information, visit the interactive map at www.cato.org/raidmap. They are, however, part and parcel of two broader phenomena. One is the militarization of domestic law enforcement. In recent years, police departments have widely adopted military tactics, military equipment (armored personnel carriers, flash-bang grenades) — and, sometimes, the mindset of military conquerors rather than domestic peacekeepers. The other phenomenon is the increasing degree to which civilians are subject to criminal prosecution for noncriminal acts, including exercising the constitutionally protected right to free speech. Last week, A.J. Marin was arrested in Harrisburg, Pa., for writing in chalk on the sidewalk. Marin was participating in a health care demonstration outside Gov. Tom Corbett’s residence when he wrote, “Governor Corbett has health insurance, we should too.” Authorities charged Marin with writing “a derogatory remark about the governor on the sidewalk.” The horror. This follows the case of Jeff Olson, who chalked messages such as “Stop big banks” outside branches of Bank of America last year. Law professor Jonathan Turley reports that prosecutors brought 13 vandalism charges against him. Moreover, the judge in the case recently prohibited Olson’s attorney from “mentioning the First Amendment, free speech,” or anything like them during the trial. In May, a Texas woman was arrested for asking to see a warrant for the arrest of her 11-year-old son. “She spent the night in jail while her son was left at home,” reports Fox34 News. The son never was arrested. Also in Texas, Justin Carter has spent months in jail — and faces eight years more — for making an admittedly atrocious joke about shooting up a school in an online chat. Though he was plainly kidding, authorities charged him with making a terrorist threat. Federal prosecutors also recently used an anti-terrorism measure to seize almost $70,000 from the owners of a Maryland dairy. Randy and Karen Sowers had made several bank deposits of just under $10,000 to avoid the headache of filing federal reports required for sums over that amount. The feds charged them with unlawful “structuring.” Last week, they settled the case. Authorities kept half their money to teach them a lesson. “I broke the law yesterday,” writes George Mason economics professor Alex Tabarrok, “and I probably will break the law tomorrow. Don’t mistake me, I have done nothing wrong. I don’t even know what laws I have broken. … It’s hard for anyone to live today without breaking the law. Doubt me? Have you ever thrown out some junk mail that … was addressed to someone else? That’s a violation of federal law punishable by up to five years in prison.” Tabarrok notes that lawyer Harvey Silverglate thinks the typical American commits “Three Felonies a Day” — the title of Silverglate’s book on the subject. As The Wall Street Journal has reported, lawmakers in Washington have greatly eroded the notion of mens rea — the principle that you need criminal intent in order to commit a crime. Thanks to a proliferating number of obscure offenses, Americans now resemble the condemned souls in Jonathan Edwards’ “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God” — spared from perdition only by the temporary forbearance of those who sit in judgment. “What once might have been considered simply a mistake,” The Journal explains, is now “punishable by jail time.” And as 20-year-old Elizabeth Daly has now learned, you can go to jail even when the person making the mistake wasn’t you. bhinkle@timesdispatch.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 21:31:34 -0600 From: "Jim Szpajcher" Subject: Re: July 5th, an important date in history Larry - We may not agree on some issues, but on this one, I stand shoulder to shoulder with you. Jim Szpajcher St. Paul, AB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry James Fillo" To: Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 11:52 AM Subject: July 5th, an important date in history > May we Canadian males all raise a cold beverage of our choice, > in a toast honouring July 5, 1946, which is the anniversary of the > introduction of the bikini. > > May we steadfastly "stand on guard" for the freedom of Canadian > women to wear it. > > (a tradition in violation of Sharia Law that drives jihadis beserk) > > This version of the famous song is a video from France, but actually > includes an example. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P28jvVMyZBE ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 21:21:09 -0700 From: Len Miller Subject: Clive has a point . Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 08:53:05 -0700 From: "Clive Edwards" <45clive@telus.net> Subject: RE: Widening trust gap by Lorne Gunter > Subject: Re: Widening trust gap by Lorne Gunter > The Canadian Airborne Regiment was disbanded for far less... > M.J. Ackermann, MD (Mike) The Somalia Affair was a 1993 military scandal later dubbed "Canada's national shame".[1] It peaked with the brutal beating death of a Somali teenager at the hands of two Canadian soldiers participating in humanitarian efforts in Somalia. The crime, documented by grisly photos, shocked the Canadian public and brought to light internal problems in the Canadian Airborne Regiment. Military leadership came into sharp rebuke after a CBC reporter received altered documents, leading to allegations of a cover-up. The RCMP do seem to get away with murder from time to time, and one way or another cover it up. They are not alone, as many provincial and municipal police forces have gotten away with murder and other crimes. The modern police culture and training establish an "us versus them" attitude, where a uniform designed to intimidate (black, body armour, little to identify the member) and a utility belt of weapons, aids and restraints, most prohibited to "civilians" further isolate police from the rest of us. The zeal with which some members approach the more unsavoury aspects of their job doesn't help. Enforcing laws against victimless crimes and paper crimes, which the state decrees are real crimes but any sensible person readily sees are not, creates a background of distrust over which the actual crimes committed, whether exonerated or not, are judged. Are Canadian police forces, particularly the RCMP, worse than the Canadian Airborne at their lowest? That's a tough call. 45clive Yes, Clive . . you have a point . . When Len paddled the 2,000 miles from Rocky Mountain House on the way to Thunder Bay in May 0f '08 .. he had occasion to visit An RCMP Detachment in rural Manitoba. There he had occasion to have a 'fraternal visit' . with the local law people . . The Station NCO invited me in and shared a meal and drink which throughly enjoyed . . while we discussed 'policey' things ''How is it going'' I asked ''Not very good'' he said ''we are having trouble with recruiting . ''Does it have anything to do with the YVR death of Dziekanski ?'' ''That story went across the entire country'' he said . . shaking his head . ''The gap is widening between the police and the public . . and it's not the fault of the public'' That was late May of '08 . . It doesn't seem to have caught anyone's attention . .especially the Senior Police authority in Canada, Many honourable veteran RCMP are uncomfortable with what 'the new kids' are doing . . with their proud history . . High River seems to have sunk it even further . Len 144 'An 'old Municipal' ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2013 00:42:14 -0600 From: "Joe Gingrich" Subject: RCMP seizure of High River guns sparks probe http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/07/05/rcmp-flood-high-river-guns-complaint-commissioner-paulson.html RCMP seizure of High River guns sparks probe RCMP seized guns they said were not secured in evacuated homes in High River, Alta. CBC News Posted: Jul 5, 2013 The head of the commission for public complaints against the RCMP says a probe has been launched after Mounties seized guns from evacuated homes in the aftermath of flooding in High River, Alta. Ian McPhail, the interim chair of the Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP, announced the "public interest" probe on Friday. "Given the concerns expressed by some members of the public and the ensuing media coverage of RCMP actions in High River, the commission will examine whether the members' actions complied with all appropriate policies, procedures, guidelines and statutory requirements," the independent agency said in a release. RCMP said they went door-to-door in sections of High River that had been evacuated due to the catastrophic flooding that hit southern Alberta in late June. Police said they were searching for victims of the flooding, but they also took firearms they said had been left in homes. a.. Alberta floods: before and after photos RCMP officials said at the time that hundreds of weapons that had been left out in plain view and not secure had been taken to the High River detachment. "It's no different than Slave Lake, to seize firearms or to secure firearms that are in plain view," RCMP Insp. Garrett Woolsey, said on June 28, referring to the Alberta community swept by fire in 2011. The police action prompted a demand from the Prime Minister's Office that the RCMP give the firearms back to their owners as soon as possible. A gun owners' group, the Canadian Shooting Sports Association, was sharply critical of the RCMP's actions, calling it proof of a "not-so-hidden agenda" to take guns away from responsible gun owners. The RCMP said on June 29 that they had begun returning the firearms to High River residents as they were allowed back into their homes. Earlier in the day, RCMP Commissioner Bob Paulson requested that McPhail consider a "chair-initiated complaint." That, Paulson wrote, would allow the complaints commission to investigate RCMP actions in High River, "to assess if they were well founded, reasonably executed and in accordance with our policies." In his Friday letter, Paulson said he is proud of the RCMP's community response to the terrible flooding in High River. "I am quite concerned by the sharp criticism that has arisen in the media with respect to the gun seizures from evacuated homes," Paulson wrote. "Naturally this is quite troubling to me, and I am sure to you, as indeed it must be to many Canadians, who wonder what was going on in High River." Paulson said he is committed to co-operating with investigators. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2013 01:20:58 -0600 From: "Joe Gingrich" Subject: Canadian born man facing deportation http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/canadian-born-man-facing-deportation-immigration-canada-says-he-s-not-a-citizen-1.1356119 Canadian born man facing deportation CTVNews.ca Staff Friday, July 5, 2013 A Canadian-born man is fighting to stay in the country as he faces the prospect of deportation to India by the Canadian government after serving time for weapons and drug trafficking. Deepan Budlakoti, 23, has lived his entire life in Canada, but for months he has been caught in what he calls a bureaucratic nightmare after the Canadian government revoked his passport and issued a deportation order. Budlakoti could be sent to India - a country he's never set foot in. "I don't know no one there, I have no family there. I have no nothing there," he told CTV News. Budlakoti has an Ontario birth certificate and his passport indicated Ottawa as his birthplace - proof he said, that he is Canadian. Budlakoti's parents are from India and came to Canada to work as support staff at the Indian High Commission in Ottawa. According to the Immigration and Refugee Board, Budlakoti's father was a foreign diplomat when his son was born. By law, the children of foreign diplomats, even if born in Canada, do not automatically become Canadian citizens. According to Citizenship and Immigration Canada, his passport application "claimed incorrectly that he was a citizen" and that "he was convicted, and served significant jail time, for trafficking both weapons and drugs." While the Canadian government demands that he be deported, India doesn't want him either. "He is our responsibility. It is for us to attend to our responsibilities," Budlakoti's lawyer Peter Stieda told CTV News. Sukanya Pillay, a director at the Civil Liberties Association, says Budlakoti may have a strong case to fight the deportation under international law. "What constitutes one's own country in international law doesn't depend solely on citizenship and nationality, it depends on the country to which you have the most ties," Pillay said. Budlakoti says while he served his time and paid his debt to society, he regrets his criminal past. " I was doing stupid things," he said. "I wish I could go back and change it but I can't." He said now he is older and he is ready to move on with his life - in Canada. "If your son was born in Canada and then getting deported to a different country he's never been to, how would they feel," he said. With a report from CTV's Omar Sachedina ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2013 01:31:12 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #800 On 2013-07-05, at 9:26 PM, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > Good work CSSA. I agree the CSSA is doing excellent work here. There role in an inquiry will be an important one. Especially, so as I've not heard of any MLA nor M.P. in Alberta standing up for the Rights and Freedoms and property of High River citizens. If they can carry this through well enough, they'll garner a reputation, one whose endorsement could carry weight in elections for the High River riding. > ALSO folks: > > The rights abused firearms owners of High River, Ab. could also help > us (the Canadian firearms community) prove that the Redford govt. and > the Harper govt.( both of whom control the RCMP) > have hidden agendas to render them (the people) helpless victims by > additional > Canadian firearms disarmament efforts. I have to disagree with you here, Joe. There is nothing hidden about it. No government desires the continued existence of any activity or state of affairs that they have made a criminal offence. The Criminal Code of Canada and regulations are public documents, as are the two Auditor General's Reports that stated their was no evidence that either C-17(1991) or C-68(1995) would improve public safety. What the governments, both federal and provincial, and the RCMP thought was a secret, is that so many of the citizenry still refuses to submit, to bow down to such abuse, even after 20 years. The difficulty in attempting to suppress and outlaw Natural Rights, is that being Natural, they keep on popping up again and again. Sort of like that old metaphor "The Tree of Liberty". Before the next election the federal cabinet needs to have a meeting in High River, a public one, it's known colloquially as a "bearpit session". It also is a responsibility of elected representatives at all levels of government to see that those answering to them operate in a manner respecting both the spirit and letter of the Charter. e.i. Section 8 to be free from unreasonable search and seizure (both of persons and property). > Yours in Tyranny, > Joe Gingrich > White Fox ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2013 01:54:27 -0600 From: Larry James Fillo Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #800 On 2013-07-05, at 9:26 PM, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote: > > Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 12:09:34 -0600 > From: "Joe Gingrich" > Subject: safe storage at the RCMP > > "Many others have voluntarily chosen to leave > their weapons in safe storage at the RCMP where they know they do not > have to worry about them while they deal with the more pressing > issues of returning their homes to a livable state." (Winnipeg > Free Press -- The Canadian Press -- July 3, 2013) > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > > 1. I would like to see how well these stolen fireams were actually "safely > stored" > by the police. A few pictures by a neutral source could be most telling, > eh? > > 2. As well, is the Harper government's criticizism of the RCMP's anti-gun > tactical assault > on the private homes of gun owners a savvy political dis-information process > to > cover their orders and intent from high? > > 3. In addition, be on the look-out and report the presence of > Harper's "gun grinder trucks" at or near High River, Ab. > > > Yours in Tyranny, > Joe Gingrich > White Fox > > ------------------------------ I think the RCMP should be required to list each and every make, model and serial number of every firearm they have destroyed, just as a matter of Audit integrity. It is something the Auditor General's office should investigate. And in which community the destroyed firearms were confiscated from. Let me boldly wager that it was largely from communities with lower rates of violent crime and from which a disproportionate number of the volunteers for our Armed Forces come from. It is from those areas and people most historically loyal to Canada and from which so many have not only sung but actually stood on guard for thee. The True North, Strong and Free. If the federal government has decided to destroy items of Canada's cultural and history much like the Taliban destroyed the giant ancient statues of Buddha at Bamiyan and as likewise their ideological partners, the Salafists of Egypt promise to destroy the pyramids. And likely for similar purposes, to erase such history from the memory of the citizenry, after which they will claim a gun culture never existed here. Well then, they can damn well list each and every item of the cultural heritage they so enthusiastically destroyed. Thus we might judge of the 15-20 million firearms estimated stock in the late 1990s, how much longer at this rate, we have left. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #802 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)