From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca (Cdn-Firearms Digest) To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #803 Reply-To: cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Sender: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Errors-To: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Precedence: normal owner-cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Cdn-Firearms Digest Saturday, July 6 2013 Volume 15 : Number 803 In this issue: Should an investigation be held into the seizure of firearms ... SUN NEWS: Watchdog investigating RCMP's seizure of firearms High River firearms seizure only increases mistrust of the RCMP LORNE GUNTER: How it all went bad for the RCMP ... and how ... Illinois towns reject call to pass assault weapons bans ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, July 6, 2013 9:16 am From: "Dennis R. Young" Subject: Should an investigation be held into the seizure of firearms ... ...in High River? Review ordered into RCMP’s seizing of guns: Share your thoughts with the Herald editorial board CALGARY HERALD JULY 5, 2013 http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Review+ordered+into+RCMP+seizing+guns+Share+your+thoughts+with+Herald+editorial+board/8622674/story.html Canada’s top Mountie has asked the head of the Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP to open an investigation into whether officers acted appropriately when they seized guns from evacuated homes during the recent flood in High River. RCMP Commissioner Bob Paulson said while he was “very proud of the heroic response” of his members during the crisis, he was “concerned by the sharp criticism” related to the weapons seizures. Please share your thoughts with the Herald editorial board. POLL: SHOULD AN INVESTIGATION BE HELD INTO THE SEIZURE OF FIREARMS IN HIGH RIVER? http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Review+ordered+into+RCMP+seizing+guns+Share+your+thoughts+with+Herald+editorial+board/8622674/story.html Yes, the police action is worrisome. 92% (69 votes) No, too much has been made of the matter already. 8% (6 votes) Total Votes: 75 NOTE: Results as of 9 am mt, July 6, 2013 --------------------------- RCMP WATCHDOG TO PROBE SEIZURE OF WEAPONS FROM HOMES DURING FLOODS BY DOUGLAS QUAN, POSTMEDIA NEWS JULY 6, 2013 http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/RCMP+watchdog+probe+seizure+weapons+from+homes+during+floods/8625086/story.html http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/Police+watchdog+probe+seizure+guns+from+homes/8624965/story.html http://www.leaderpost.com/news/Police+watchdog+probe+seizure+guns+from+homes/8624286/story.html The Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP will investigate whether officers acted appropriately when they seized hundreds of guns from private homes evacuated during recent flooding in southern Alberta. "Given the concerns expressed by some members of the public and the ensuing media coverage of RCMP actions in High River, the Commission will examine whether the members' actions complied with all appropriate policies, procedures, guidelines and statutory requirements," the commission said in a statement posted on its website Friday. Earlier in the day, RCMP Commissioner Bob Paulson wrote to commission chair Ian McPhail asking for an investigation to be opened. The top Mountie said while he was "very proud of the heroic response" of RCMP members during the crisis, he was "concerned by the sharp criticism" related to the weapons seizures. "Naturally, this is quite troubling to me, and I am sure to you, as indeed it must be to many Canadians who wonder what was going on in High River," Paulson wrote. It wasn't just some of the gun owners who thought the RCMP had overstepped their bounds. The Prime Minister's Office issued a statement at the time saying that the guns should be returned to their owners as soon as possible. "We believe the RCMP should focus on more important tasks, such as protecting lives and private property," the statement said. Marianne Ryan, assistant commissioner in 'K' Division, told Postmedia News this week that as officers were going door to door looking for stranded residents, they came upon a number of weapons in plain view and became concerned they could fall into the wrong hands. "Anything we saw that was in plain view that wasn't secured, we took. We didn't open desk drawers. ... We didn't open secure gun lockers because the guns would be secured," she said. "There's this belief there's a sinister motive, it's totally wrong. Our motive was very mindful of the public's safety. This is not a second attempt at us to get a gun registry in High River." Ryan said a total of 529 weapons were seized and the process of returning them has begun. She noted that many residents have been appreciative of the RCMP's actions, including a gun collector with 93 firearms. "When he came to pick them up, he said, 'I just want you to know this was my retirement investment. You've just saved my retirement.' " Others, she said, have asked the RCMP to continue holding on to their guns because they don't have a secure place for them at the moment, Ryan added. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, July 6, 2013 9:24 am From: "Dennis R. Young" Subject: SUN NEWS: Watchdog investigating RCMP's seizure of firearms by Rick Bell SUN NEWS: Watchdog investigating RCMP's seizure of firearms RICK BELL | QMI AGENCY - 7:41 am, July 6th, 2013 [embedded videos] http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/straighttalk/archives/2013/07/20130706-074142.html The gun story is not going away just yet. An independent watchdog overseeing the RCMP is now investigating what we're told by the cops last week is no big deal. Yes, last week the critics of the RCMP entering homes and seizing guns in the near-ghost town of High River are tarred with the usual brush - nasty loons, gun nuts, wearers of tinfoil hats tilting at windmills of conspiracy. Then Friday we learn of this look-see. MORE: High River resident outraged over RCMP actions http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2013/07/20130704-111946.html Watchdog Ian McPhail of the Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP points to "concerns expressed by some members of the public" and "ensuing media coverage." He adds "the prime minister's office equally and publicly expressed concern." McPhail kicks off a "public interest investigation" expected to last 90 days with a report to follow. He will look at whether the entering of homes and the seizing of firearms from homes went against any laws or RCMP policies. He will also review whether those RCMP policies are up to snuff. McPhail acknowledges RCMP Commissioner Bob Paulson's "support for an independent review of RCMP actions in High River." RELATED: RCMP boss orders investigation into Alberta gun seizure http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/straighttalk/archives/2013/07/20130705-073054.html On Friday, Paulson writes McPhail asking him to investigate the seizing of guns from High River homes after those homes had been evacuated on orders of the government. The RCMP top gun is "quite concerned" by the "sharp criticism" of the media. Such hammering in the press is "quite troubling" to him and he figures it must be troubling to "many Canadians who wonder what was going on in High River." He does not say police conduct troubles him. In fact and of course it doesn't. Only the damn media coverage does. Paulson pledges full co-operation and complete information. Well, there's one thing you don't need Sherlock Holmes to tell you. Communications, at the very least, was awe-inspiringly awful. A little over a week ago, with the mercury rising in High River and standoffs between citizens and cops, we hear the Mounties scoop "a large quantity of firearms" from the town, at a time when only a very small group of holdouts live there even after being demonized by the authorities. The cops hold detailed briefings with newshounds but never mention the hauling away of the guns, something you'd think would be kind of important news. When the cops finally go public and mention "several hundred firearms secured for public safety reasons" questions are naturally raised. Why wasn't the public informed through the press or otherwise? RCMP answer. It never came up in questions. It was "not remarkable" since they seize dozens if not hundreds of guns in other cases. Again, as stated last week in this space, those seizures are from bad guys. The Mounties tell us people moved their guns from safe storage to a higher spot in their flooding house. The cops also tell us they only took guns "in plain view." Though we hear murmurs saying the number of guns seized is well over 1,000 the cops insist it is several hundred but won't be more specific. This week Mounties began giving the guns back. BRIAN LILLEY: RCMP wrong to seize guns http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/straighttalk/archives/2013/07/20130705-073054.html The prime minister's office in a what-the-hell-were-you-thinking comment tells the Mounties they should "focus on more important tasks such as protecting lives and private property." Premier Redford, at the other end, spoke of "dangerous things happening" and said the RCMP had to ensure there was law and order. People are plainly peeved and you can't go far in High River without hearing the resentment and talk of cops kicking in doors and rummaging through houses. Wildrose leader Danielle Smith, MLA for the High River area and a High River resident, says the police "aggravated an already tense and stressful situation." "These sorts of actions damage the trust residents have for their leaders and will make future disaster situations more difficult to manage effectively." Smith says the Mounties "have a lot to answer for." She is gathering her own information from her High River constituents and she wants to know how many guns were secured at the request of gun owners and how many were not. It is her understanding houses were entered to look for people and then for building inspections and then a third time "just to get the guns." Jonathan Denis, the province's top cop and justice minister, says when he saw gun after gun after gun coming into the RCMP detachment in High River it "raised an eyebrow with me." He gives credit to the RCMP for requesting a probe. And wherever this bouncing ball lands, at least we have their attention. That's a whole lot more than a week ago. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, July 6, 2013 9:31 am From: "Dennis R. Young" Subject: High River firearms seizure only increases mistrust of the RCMP High River firearms seizure only increases mistrust of the RCMP Its justification for violating privacy and property in order to protect property is unconvincing BY Marco Navarro-Genie - CALGARY, AB, Jul 6, 2013/ Troy Media/ - Should the RCMP have done it? http://www.troymedia.com/2013/07/06/seizure-of-firearms-only-increases-mistrust-of-the-rcmp/ I'm talking, of course, about its seizure of firearms from evacuated High River homes. That the seizures came during a state of emergency situation doesn't matter as much and the legality of the seizure isn't the main question. Central to the rule of law is that those involved in its administration use caution in its application. Judges or law enforcers, for example, should adjust their judgement to context and circumstance. In that sense, a judge who gives a lenient sentence to a repentant teenager prudently adapts to the circumstance of contrition. Context matters. In the wisdom of our legal tradition context matters because the purpose of justice is not the blind application of the law but the promotion of goodness and fairness. It recognizes that applying rules for the sake of the rules unduly limits liberty and could beget tyranny. In that tradition, there have been instances in which police have ignored calls to action or refused to enforce laws against protestors blocking roads. To their discretion, the enforcement of the letter of the law might put people in greater danger and undermine the public's perception of police neutrality which, if true, erodes in turn the fairness that justice seeks to promote. The smoke screen of "just following orders" or simply applying the law, therefore, is insufficient. So, when the RCMP announced seizing "large quantities of weapons" in High River because they were improperly stored, we have to look at the circumstances and not only the law's application. The Mounties claim that, during their sweep of evacuated High River homes to check to see if there were people left behind, they discovered the regulation-violating firearms. They quickly "secured", as they like to phrase it, the firearms. The broader context is known but it needs to be spelled out. The homes were vacant because people were ordered to evacuate by the same authority that forced its way in to locked homes. The police claim it seized the firearms because of the risk of the items being stolen, which begs the question as to what it did with the valuable porcelain and silverware they encountered and that was also "in plain view." As there had been no reports of looting in High River since it was sealed off, the ironic justification for violating privacy and property in order to protect property is unconvincing. It makes you wonder about the RCMP's judgment: first, order and enforce an evacuation, then seize private property from people's vacated homes, then inform the evacuees of the seizure while at the same time ignoring their pleas for permission to return to their homes in their hopes of retrieving some of their prized possessions themselves. Even if well-meant, the crass announcement failed to account for human fragility in situations of disaster. But the greater effect of the RCMP's actions is that people are questioning its motives. Is the federal police more interested in boosting their incident report statistics than in protecting the rights of vulnerable citizens? Most reasonable people understand the need of police or firefighters entering our homes in an emergency, even when we are not home. But that is quite different thing from allowing them to bust down doors, pick locks and seize our property. Although no charges may be laid and the items are returned, there is a violation of trust in knowing that the Mounties have been through our drawers. The colossal lack of RCMP judgment in this incident will likely have an even greater impact outside of High River. The repercussions will be national. In future disaster and emergency situations, its crafty seizure of firearms will make people even more reluctant to leave their homes. The imprudent firearms roundup has eroded public confidence in the federal police. In going through the evacuees' closets, the Mounties have exposed themselves to greater mistrust. And that sentiment, in the long run, may endanger more lives rather than safeguarding them. Marco Navarro-Genie is vice president of research at the Frontier Centre for Public Policy ( www.fcpp.org ). This column originally ran in the Calgary Herald. This column is FREE to use on your websites or in your publications. However, www.troymedia.com MUST be credited. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, July 6, 2013 10:23 am From: "Dennis R. Young" Subject: LORNE GUNTER: How it all went bad for the RCMP ... and how ... ...to get it good again TORONTO SUN - How it all went bad for the RCMP ... and how to get it good again BY LORNE GUNTER, QMI AGENCY - UPDATED: FRIDAY, JULY 05, 2013 04:22 PM EDT http://www.torontosun.com/2013/07/05/how-it-all-went-bad-for-the-rcmp--and-how-to-get-it-good-again EDMONTON - I am not a Mountie-hater. Far from it. I grew up on the Prairies in the era when the local RCMP detachment was the cornerstone of every small community -- the Mounties and a Chinese restaurant with arborite counters and revolving stools were required institutions. I was taught to venerate the RCMP. So any criticism I offer is offered out of esteem for the institution and a hope Mounties will not become what University of Calgary political scientist Barry Cooper once called "bureaucrats in uniform." I don't want them to become unionized letter carriers with guns and badges. To the extent the RCMP has drifted away from its iconic days (and it has drifted a lot), the cause is fourfold: The force is too closely integrated into the broader civil service (it is no longer an independent police force), it has too many missions and not enough funding, personnel or training to do them all, its discipline policies are too union-like making it nearly impossible to fire bad-apple officers and the force has lost its credibility with a lot of ordinary Canadians because Mounties have become Ottawa's gun cops. The need to enforce the Liberals' 1995 Firearms Act has made the Mounties suspicious of nearly every law-abiding Canadian who owns a gun. (That's at least four million citizens, despite federal claims that just two million Canadians own guns.) Conversely, it has made millions of gun owners - most of whom should be natural supporters of the police - wary of their local RCMP officers. There is no underestimating the extent to which Bill C-68 has driven a wedge between police and the citizenry, especially in rural Canada and the West. (Even though the registry is history, the bill's licensing and onerous safe-storage provisions remain in place.) Of course, the Mounties' problems go way beyond the gun law that has been in effect for the past 15 years. Public confidence has also been shaken by botched, high-profile incidents such as the death of Robert Dziekanski, a Polish immigrant, who died after being Tasered by Mounties at Vancouver International airport in October 2007. Subsequent attempts by the four officers involved and their superiors to cover up what went on added to the public's mistrust. Charges against sworn members of the RCMP for drunk driving, spousal abuse (even death) and excessive force against prisoners have piled up in recent years, too. Claims by over 200 female officers of extensive sexism in the ranks haven't helped, either. In a poll published this week, 51% of Canadians surveyed for QMI Agency believe officers have used excess force, while 54% are convinced sexism is rampant within the RCMP. Significant pluralities are also convinced problems within the force are "widespread" (43%) and are not being exaggerated (42%). Bob Head, a former assistant commissioner for the Northwest Territories, pegs the beginning of the current decline on the reorganization of the RCMP in the mid-1980s. At that time, the force was brought under the direct authority of a federal cabinet minister - then the solicitor general, now the minister of public safety. The RCMP commissioner became a deputy minister. According to Head, this imposed on the force a host of civil service rules - such as for staffing and budgeting - which in time infected the force with a civil service mindset. It also pulled senior officers into the political process and encouraged them to cozy up to the government of the day in hopes, for instance, of smoothing the way for budget increases. As far back as 1999, Head was warning that incidents such as the Airbus affair would become more common because of the too-close relationship between the commissioner/deputy minister and the cabinet. (The Airbus affair was a groundless, but very public, investigation by the Mounties of former prime minister Brian Mulroney over allegations that he took kickbacks on a Canadian purchase of Europe's Airbus passenger jets.) The U. of C.'s Cooper voices similar concerns. "Cops like to do things that are easy," he explains. They also like to do things that please their political masters, especially where police are too directly intertwined in the "day-to-day political process." When the Liberals were considering mandatory gun-owner licensing and a universal firearms registry in the mid-1990s, senior Mounties advised against it. They believed it was unworkable and would do nothing to stop gun crime, which they understood was carried out mostly by drug dealers, junkies and other criminals. They even questioned the gun-crime statistics the Liberals were using to claim there was an urgent problem that needed solving. But because the RCMP was just another branch of the civil service, successful commissioners eventually went along with the scheme. The logical end point was seen last week in High River, Alta., where Mounties went door-to-abandoned-door seizing any firearms they could find from flood-evacuated homes. Over time the force's bureaucratic thinking has convinced Mounties that law-abiding gun owners are as much a threat to public safety as street thugs (and easier to go after). The force's civil service mindset is also evident in its inability to deal with "bad apples," such as Don Ray and Monty Robinson. Ray is a former head of the polygraph unit at Alberta headquarters in Edmonton. Last year an internal disciplinary board found he had violated his conduct oath seven times between 2006 and 2009. Several times during office hours, Ray used his polygraph interrogation room to have sex with a civilian RCMP employee. He also used an unmarked cruiser to travel to sites where the pair had sex, sometimes in the cruiser. And he frequently pressured uniformed female subordinates and recruits to "socialize" with him. After admitting to these violations, Ray was a demoted one rank level from staff sergeant to sergeant, put on 10 days unpaid suspension and transferred to B.C. Robinson, the officer in charge at YVR during the Dziekanski Tasering, ran a stop sign a year later while driving home drunk from a kids' birthday party and killed motorcyclist Orion Hutchinson. For more than three years, Robinson was on paid leave until he was found guilty of obstruction of justice and could, finally, be fired. Both former Commissioner Bill Elliott and his replacement, current RCMP boss Bob Paulson, have asked Parliament to amend the RCMP Act to give national and regional commanders more discretion to deal with bad apples faster and more fully. As yet, there is no indication the government intends to act. The Mounties are also overcommitted. With their responsibility for local policing (for as much as 70% of the country, the RCMP are the community police service), drug interdiction, anti-terrorism intelligence, commercial fraud and so on, the RCMP do what 17 separate agencies in the U.S. do. Their responsibilities are simply too broad for their budget, their number of sworn personnel and their training. For instance, where once the Mounties' commercial crime squad was the envy of the world - with in-house forensic accountants, computer specialists and tax lawyers -- repeated budget cuts have gutted its operations. Being close to the political process hasn't helped. Indeed, being just another bureaucratic department has made it easier for successive governments to cut RCMP spending -- easier than it would have been had the RCMP been a standalone force with independent authority and command structure. How is it considered so vital that the auditor general and the federal privacy and information commissioners be independent of the political process that they must be officers of Parliament, but not so the commissioner of the RCMP? Surely the job of policing the country fairly, competently and without bias is at least as vital as determining if the Human Resources Canada has an obligation to release 40-year-old census records. The greatest source of hope that the Mounties can be reformed has to be the commitment and spirit of its ordinary, uniformed members. They are mostly well-intentioned, even when their actions are misguided - as in the High River gun grab. In our survey of attitudes towards the RCMP, Mounties past and present were seemingly more critical of the current situation than ordinary Canadians. But the first step in the long process of recovering the force's lustre has to be separating it, again, from government and politics. LORNE GUNTER ( lorne.gunter@sunmedia.ca ) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2013 10:41:36 -0600 From: "Joe Gingrich" Subject: Illinois towns reject call to pass assault weapons bans http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/06/few-ill-towns-opting-for-assault-weapons-bans/?testlatestnews Illinois towns reject call to pass assault weapons bans Published July 06, 2013 Associated Press SPRINGFIELD, Ill. - As Illinois prepares to become the last state in the country to allow the concealed carry of firearms, few of its communities appear concerned that the window allowing them to ban assault-style weapons will rapidly begin closing next week. Despite encouragement from Lt. Gov. Sheila Simon -- and on the verge of almost-certain enactment next week of a law allowing residents to carry concealed weapons -- only four communities have adopted semi-automatic gun restrictions out of more than two dozen taking them up. According to interviews and information from gun-rights groups such as the Illinois State Rifle Association, 14 communities have rejected or decided not to act on proposed bans. Ten have yet to vote or have delayed consideration. All of them are in the Chicago metropolitan area. Those adopting bans -- Highland Park, North Chicago, Melrose Park, and Skokie -- join eight other cities, also near Chicago, that already regulate possession or sale and transfer of illegal weapons, according to research compiled by the Illinois House Democrats' staff. The odd linkage of packing handguns in public to allow city-based bans on semi-automatic weapons comes from a delicately negotiated settlement that will make Illinois the last of 50 states to allow the carrying of concealed weapons. Lawmakers approved concealed carry in May after a federal appeals court ruled it is unconstitutional for the state to prohibit it. Gun-rights supporters pushed through the House a concealed carry initiative which invalidated all local ordinances regulating guns. Chicago Democrats in the Senate demanded that Chicago be allowed to keep its ban on assault-style rifles, leading to the compromise allowing those places without such bans 10 days to enact them. "I just don't see the place for it. I'm not against people having guns, not at all," said Melrose Park Mayor Ron Serpico, whose village board unanimously voted for a ban in late June. "The thing I can't get my arms around, I know when the Constitution was passed, I don't think they could envision these types of guns." Along with the dozen communities banning them, Deerfield officials voted not to ban the weapons but adopted storage regulations. Outside the Chicago area, only a couple communities requested information from Simon when she urged cities in early June to consider bans. None followed up. Lawmakers adopted the concealed carry legislation by margins large enough to invalidate Gov. Pat Quinn's amendatory veto of the bill on Tuesday. Quinn called the initiative "flawed" and along with tougher restrictions, suggested there be no time limit on enacting local assault-weapons bans. The Highland Park City Council agreed with Quinn's contention that larger cities with "home rule" powers should have a say on semi-automatic weapons and high-capacity ammunition feeders. "It became a question of, this is a home-rule right, and we think we ought to retain it," Highland Park City Manager Dave Knapp said. Skokie officials decided to enact an ordinance for review later. "We can amend it or repeal it once the legal dust settles," corporation counsel Michael Lorge said. In Chicago, with a long history of tough gun restrictions, Mayor Rahm Emanuel last month proposed a tougher city assault-weapons ban. It would include cover weapons not included in the current ordinance and would "reflect advances" in gun technology, according to a news release. But not every community is toeing the anti-gun line. The Illinois State Rifle Association has worked against what association officer Mike Weisman said is needless regulation because semi-automatic rifles are not often used in murders. FBI statistics indicate that of 377 Illinois firearms-related murders in 2011, only 13 were not committed with a handgun. Five were by shotgun, one by rifle -- although the type is not specified -- and seven by an unreported type of gun. "They don't need local control over these firearms," Weisman said. "There are no problems, so they're creating a tough, painful solution to a non-existent problem." More than a dozen cities have heard the outcry from gun owners. "I never had so many emails, so many phone calls from people who didn't want us even playing with this issue," said Dean Argiris, the village president of Wheeling, where he and the entire board of trustees voted against an ordinance Monday night. The Northbrook Village Board took a pass last month. "We believe that it belongs at the federal or state level," village president Sandra Frum said. Simon's office said her letter to more than 200 home-rule communities generated requests for information and sample ordinances from six cities, none of which have appeared to have taken up the issue. Mayor Joel Fritzler, Simon's hometown of Carbondale, is one official who requested information but chose not to pursue it after a tepid response from city council members. "To have a patchwork system in Illinois just doesn't make sense," Fritzler said. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V15 #803 *********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@scorpion.bogend.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca Moderator email: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@scorpion.bogend.ca FAQ list: http://www.canfirearms/Skeeter/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://www.canfirearms.ca CFDigest Archives: http://www.canfirearms.ca/archives To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next four lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@scorpion.bogend.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".)