From: owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca on behalf of Cdn-Firearms Digest [owner-cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca] Sent: Thursday, 19 July, 2001 15:20 To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Subject: Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #925 Cdn-Firearms Digest Thursday, July 19 2001 Volume 03 : Number 925 In this issue: RCMP Firearms TorSun Letter to the Editor Zarpa Trial Date Set Blood and guts Windsor Star letter to the Ed. on CFD V3 #912 School shootings predictable, U.S. report says STOOPID FREAKIN' BUNGHOLES Temporary Import Permits HHeeelllppppp!!! Pachmayr Editor (We don't think it's your hunting rifle the UN's after) Therien the drone Congress gunning for tally Man's death latest in list of shootings ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:43:53 -0600 From: "Mike Hargreaves" Subject: RCMP Firearms I have been reading with great interest the controversy surrounding the Prime Ministers security detail carrying handguns out of the Country! To send our young men and woman of the RCMP out into the world of nut cases in other Countries not armed as they are at home is criminal, and it is about time we as a Country smartened up! The prime reason for carrying a hand gun is SELF!! defence, and I for one feel that our RCMP Officers should be able to defend them selves at all times whilst performing their duties. The fact that this duty is looking after an unpopular to the RFC Prime Minister is immaterial. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:19:08 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: TorSun Letter to the Editor http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoSun/editorial.html#letters Toronto Sun 19/07/01 Letters to the Editor I WOULD have thought that when Canada sends a representative to give a speech at a UN conference on the international gun trade, it would be someone who has a knowledge of firearms, someone who had learned to shoot at his dad's side in a Northern Ontario moose pasture, or at least someone who appreciates what hunting and firearms ownership means to many Canadians. Instead, Canada's representative began his speech before the UN by declaring that "Small arms are truly weapons of mass destruction." Both sides of the gun control debate are entitled to make ridiculous and exaggerated assertions, but it should be the role of government to moderate these opposing views, not to adopt one as policy. This entire conference seems devoted to finding ways to confiscate and destroy these "weapons of mass destruction." No wonder there is a reluctance by Canadians to register their hunting rifles. Dale Ramsey Orangeville (We don't think it's your hunting rifle the UN's after) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:19:15 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Zarpa Trial Date Set UPDATE: Today, the Library of Parliament advised that a trial date for Abraham Zarpa has been set for January 14, 2002. The preliminary enquiry took place on December 4-7, 2000 and found that Zarpa should stand trial for the second degree murder of Martin Angnatok. The Provincial Court of Newfoundland has imposed a publication ban on the case pursuant to section 539(1)(a) of the Criminal Code of Canada. On March 3, 2000, the Moncton Times and Transcript (page A11) published the following report from Nain, Nfld: "A Labrador man prohibited from owning firearms retrieved one of his rifles from the local RCMP detachment the same day he is accused of fatally shooting a 15-year-old boy, police said Wednesday. Under a year-old federal law, anyone banned from owning a gun can apply for an exemption if they need a firearm to hunt for food. It's called a 'sustenance variance' under Sect 113 of the Criminal Code. Abraham Zarpa, 30 was charged with second-degree murder after the body of Martin Angnatok, 15, was found inside a home in Nain. Zarpa was granted an exemption for sustenance variance last December. 'His guns were held at the RCMP detachment in Nain and if he was going hunting he would sign them out,' said RCMP Const. Scott Morrison. 'When he returned from hunting, he had to return them to the detachment...He did sign out one of his rifles that day.'" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:19:21 -0600 From: Rick Lowe Subject: Blood and guts Larry Luzny > I agree with Bob 110%. Was Dallaire a General, or a Clerk? Dallaire was a general officer... which means he's expected to obey the orders of other general officers - or be immediately relieved of command. Hmmmm... wonder what would have been accomplished if one of the bunkered down third world officers had been put in place of Dallaire? Yep, we definitely need a volunteer home guard of troops willing to commit suicide to demonstrate their principles - rather than expect others to commit suicide for those principles in their place. > What about Blood & Guts Lewis MacKenzie when he ran up against a couple of > vehicles blocking his path... they didn't stay functional very long... When > he needed equipment, he got it by hook or by crook... You might note that all sorts of genocide was going on around MacKenzie while he was the force commander on scene. And HE had lots of capable troops and logistical support unlike Dallaire. But you didn't see MacKenzie leading his men on an all out assault on those doing the killing, do you? A couple of vehicles vs genocide... big deal. This would be the same MacKenzie who relieved the commander of the Airborne Regiment when he had the courage to protest his orders to Somalia because he said their were disciplinary problems within the Regiment that needed sorting out first? That decision to replace Lt-Col. Morneault, was a very carefully made one - made in the back of a staff car while on the way to a "wine and dine" function during a social exchange with US officers. Made for political considerations, no less. How long do you figure Mackenzie would have tolerated Dallaire disobeying orders without replacing HIM, had he been Dallaire's immediate commander at the time? This is the same Mackenzie, incidentally, that approved our workup training for Yugo being sidelined for two weeks so that soldiers from his Regiment could take part in two weeks of sports festivals at Strong Contender. Winning at sports was more important to Mackenzie than preparing for the mission. So rather than weapons training, mine awareness training, etc - the whole brigade basically stood down into idle mode while the solected contestants went away for Strong Contender. In the end, we got a whole two hours of mine awareness training, but weeks of broomaloo, cross country skiing, hockey, etc. How many Canadian soldiers died in Yugo from mines vs dying from not having the opportunity to play hockey for the regiment? Then there is the issue of a young Lt. MacKenzie's involvement in the coverup of a Canadian soldier beating a Turkish Cypriot policeman to death back in '68... Please don't hold up MacKenzie as an example of soldiering to those of us who went on missions with him holding the reins... He did some very good work while in Yugo and elsewhere, but he never had to operate under the constraints that Dallaire had either. Nor did he ignore his orders and use all the force at his command to attempt to halt the killing. And he's not exactly without his faults if you want to examine the ethics of his leadership. You'll probably end up reading this in the chat digest, and I don't subcribe or read there... Moderator: definitely the word. Those members without military service have little or no interest in this thread. Thank You ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:19:36 -0600 From: Lee Jasper Subject: Windsor Star letter to the Ed. on CFD V3 #912 It argued: >Response must be given to letter writer Peter Smith's >July 3 missive regarding lives saved by firearms >legislation. And >Focusing on registration and licensing as a means >to stop crime is tantamount to closing the barn door >after the livestock has walked out. The OFAH argument concluded: >Mr. Smith thinks the $600 million spent so far on >control in Canada is money well spent. We think not. >Spend the same amount of money on mental health >acilities, substance-abuse clinics and anti-poverty >initiatives and social programs and far more will >be done to reduce injury and death by criminal misuse >of firearms. Of course the point is, both the fed and especially our Ontario provincial government has literally shredded support for these very programs touted by the OFAH. You can't have it both ways. In fact, many listees' would further compound the problem by advocating we lock up even more people, for longer sentences - with nil rehab programs. Yep, all hard time. That'd smarten 'em up. Some would even advocate the cane. Oh, if there were easy answers to these moral/philosophical dilemmas. Back to Poly Sci and Phil 100. By the way, I had the opportunity to recently tour Osprey Links on Callander Bay (near North Bay). This is the very development that obtained quick rezoning against the recommendations of the Ministry's of Natural Resources and Environment and the local municipality, in an area of fragile habitat - for a plush housing development and golf course - the very operation that continues to obtain endless government grants to run golf tournaments, etc. Very, very plush!!!! Perhaps we could borrow this operation for a residential juvenile treatment facility and get some benefit from 'our tax dollars at work.' Meanwhile, nearby North Bayites are faced with an inadequate water treatment system that has no filtering system for nasty intestinal bugs that chlorine do not eradicate. Went across to Mattawa and rode the Timber Train to Temiscaming, Que. and also toured the Canadian Ecological Centre. The ECO is a computer nerds camp in the middle of bush and runs various GPS, parabolic and other ecotourism courses. The folks have a 'Rails and Trails' deal where you can ride the Timbre Train north to Temiscaming and return via your ATV, south to Mattawa. A barbecued steak dinner is even provided enroute at Snake Creek prior to crossing the Ottawa River via barge with the ATVs. Of course this is a copy of the various Rails and Trails (Agawa Canyon and Polar Bear Express) tours popularized by snowmobilers. Talk about 'out tax dollars at work' much to the glee of local businesses. Yep the federal FedNor, HRDC, and provincial Northern Ontario Heritage Fund dollars (and untold other funding programs) have the local economy just humming. The local fed and prov Libs, CAs, PCs and NDP are very much, happily arm in arm, feeding from the same communal trough. All kinds of major bucks for snowmobiling and ATVing - all for a user group of an estimated 450,000 people. And of course the ecotourists are the real focus of attention. Passive natural resource users, they're called. There IS something to be said for being politically correct. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:19:43 -0600 From: Bruce Mills Subject: School shootings predictable, U.S. report says But of course, the solution isn't identifying and treating those with problems, or taking any warnings seriously, it's BAN THE GUNS! http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/printarticle/gam/20010718/USH OTN The Globe and Mail School shootings predictable, U.S. report says Wednesday, July 18, 2001 DENVER -- Most students involved in school shootings discussed the attacks beforehand and could have been stopped if authorities had been notified, the U.S. Secret Service says. Appearing at a school safety conference, two agents discussed a Secret Service report to be released this summer that looks at 41 children involved in 37 school shootings since 1974. "There was no instance where the attack in a school was impulsive," said Bryan Vossekuil, co-director of the agency's Safe School Initiative. Mr. Vossekuil and agent Matt Doherty told educators and police the findings suggested they could prevent shootings like the massacre at Columbine High School. Mr. Doherty said most of the shooters had done something that caught the attention of police, fellow students or teachers before the attack. The report also said two-thirds of shooters reported feeling bullied before their attacks. AP Copyright © 2001 Globe Interactive, a division of Bell Globemedia Publishing Inc. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:31:31 -0600 From: "jim davies" Subject: STOOPID FREAKIN' BUNGHOLES >> "We are taking further measures against criminals who use guns and we already have schemes in the pipeline to curtail illegal gun use. These include a national register of legal guns... >>STOOPID FREAKIN' BUNGHOLES. >>They just don't get it, do they? The fundamental reaction of appeasers is tangentiality, that is when a "wrong" is actually noticed a direction other than the logical is chosen to deal with it; thus the Brit howler of a week ago, where a swarm of new intersection cameras are bringing in a tidal wave of cash from Joe Lunchbox on his way to work. The spokesliar's explanation? We MUST DO SOMETHING, because violent crimes such as rape and murder are becoming far too common. Thats appeasement. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:44:27 -0600 From: Walter Martindale Subject: Temporary Import Permits HHeeelllppppp!!! Hi, Problem... I have guns sitting in a warehouse in NZ waiting air freight to Canada. I have an import certificate for the guns, to get them into Canada. United Air was apparently the only line that would carry them and interline with Air Canada, either LAX to Edmonton (preferred option) or Honolulu to Vancouver. It seems I need a "temporary import permit" from the US State Dept's "Defence Trade Controls" office, that must accompany the shipment, or US customs will seize the stuff, charge penalties, and I then still need to get the permit to get my stuff. It's almost all target equipment. So - anyone know who I can call in the US or Canada to facilitate a temp import permit to get my toys back home? Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:43:39 -0600 From: "Trigger Mortis" Subject: Pachmayr I was at a gun show in Toronto recently and bought Pachmayr grips for a SIG226. I asked how much. The guy said $10. I almost ripped my pocket pulling the money out. When I installed them at home, I noticed something wrong right away. The standard grips wrap around the backstrap of the 226 and cover the mainspring, just like on a Walther PPK. Sure enough, the Pachmayr grips wrapped around the front, but not the backstrap. Now, I knew why they were only $10. The mainspring was completely uncovered. I searched the web for Pachmayr and found their web site. I sent them an email explaining the problem. I got an answer back the next day. They would send me the backstrap cover. I answered back, "That's great. How much do I owe you?" Pachmayr answered again, "No charge. Enjoy your 226." Now, that's service!!! The piece arrived today and the Pachmayr grips, including backstrap cover, are on the SIG pistol now and they are very comfortable. They are thicker than the factory grips, but that's OK for me. I have a large hand. (I can pick up a basketball by grabbing it from the top.) Thanks very much, Pachmayr. Bye. Al. rharper@cgocable.net SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM ************************* _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:44:13 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Editor (We don't think it's your hunting rifle the UN's after) PUBLICATION: The Toronto Sun DATE: 2001.07.19 SECTION: Editorial/opinion PAGE: 14 COLUMN: Letters to the editor - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- LETTERS TO THE EDITOR - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- I WOULD have thought that when Canada sends a representative to give a speech at a UN conference on the international gun trade, it would be someone who has a knowledge of , someone who had learned to shoot at his dad's side in a Northern Ontario moose pasture, or at least someone who appreciates what hunting and ownership means to many Canadians. Instead, Canada's representative began his speech before the UN by declaring that "Small arms are truly weapons of mass destruction." Both sides of the gun control debate are entitled to make ridiculous and exaggerated assertions, but it should be the role of government to moderate these opposing views, not to adopt one as policy. This entire conference seems devoted to finding ways to confiscate and destroy these "weapons of mass destruction." No wonder there is a reluctance by Canadians to register their hunting rifles. Dale Ramsey Orangeville Editor's Comment (We don't think it's your hunting rifle the UN's after) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:43:46 -0600 From: "Ross" Subject: Therien the drone Emile Therien the president of the Canada safety council has once again = used a tragic shooting incident to preach his version of gun control. Canada has had Bill C-68 foisted on Canadian courtesy of the arrogant = Liberal government. Justice minister Mc Mc Lellan told reported and parliament that this new = improved and tougher gun laws will promote a culture of safety, and will = make Canada safer . Clearly these new laws did not affect the shooter in the St Mary's area. While the presidents of the various safety council will try to sell = their snake oil to the public under the guise of saving one childs life, = or peace order and good government, the root causes of such tragic = shootings are being ignored. Considering the government had spent over 1.3 billion dollars on the = current gun registry, this same amount could have been spent to help = people who feel they have no resort but to kill others.=20 Letter to the Ottawa Sun re :Therien and his endless droning on gun = control Of course fixing problems is not what the Canada Safety Council does = best. Preaching about more controls when the current model has cost more = lives that it has saved is easier than fixing the root causes of the = problem. More people in Canada die from medical misadventure with their doctors = than die by firearms. perhaps Emile Therien should seriously look there = to save some lives because the Liberals have blown their culture of = safety out the window and with it Theriens credibility. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:44:07 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Congress gunning for tally PUBLICATION: Calgary Herald DATE: 2001.07.19 EDITION: FINAL SECTION: News PAGE: A13 SOURCE: The Associated Press DATELINE: WASHINGTON, D.C. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Congress gunning for tally - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- U.S. legislators urged a government-wide accounting of and computers Wednesday following the FBI's disclosure that hundreds of laptops and weapons were missing from the agency. A bureau administrator acknowledged that no single official was responsible for keeping track of weapons or computers with classified information. Senator Charles Grassley of Iowa, the ranking Republican on the finance committee, called for the Treasury Department -- which includes the Secret Service -- to account for its guns and secure computers. Representative John Dingell (D -- Mich.), wants the General Accounting Office, Congress' investigative and auditing arm, to check every federal agency to see if any other weapons are missing. ``If our premiere law enforcement agency, the FBI, is so lax in keeping track of its guns, I shudder to think about what other abuses may exist at other federal agencies,'' said Dingell, top Democrat on the House judiciary committee. The FBI has since tightened security and Attorney General John Ashcroft said he has confidence in the agency. Senators critical of FBI lapses nevertheless pledged to press for major reforms. ``This Congress wants some changes and so does the American people,'' Senator Jeff Sessions (R -- Ala.), said at an FBI oversight hearing in the Senate judiciary committee. The Justice Department revealed Tuesday that 449 side arms and submachine-guns are missing. One of the missing guns was used in a homicide, officials said. Also, there are 184 computers, at least one containing classified data, missing. Kenneth Senser, the FBI's deputy assistant director in charge of internal security, said the FBI established a security council that began in May 2000 to put in place a system to make sure the bureau was keeping track of the computers. Senser added that the FBI has improved its security systems and protocols in the last two years. Senators have complained for weeks that the FBI has a culture of covering up its mistakes and have offered several bills to reform the agency, including provisions for outside reviews and more power for agency watchdogs such as the inspector general's office. The Issue Hundreds of FBI guns and laptops are missing - - What's New: Call to check weapons of all federal agencies ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:44:00 -0600 From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" Subject: Man's death latest in list of shootings PUBLICATION GLOBE AND MAIL DATE: THU JUL.19,2001 PAGE: A18 BYLINE: TIM COOK CLASS: Toronto News EDITION: Metro DATELINE: WORDS: 552 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Man's death latest in list of shootings Authorities try to curb growing trend; nine black men killed in past three months - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- TIM COOK Damian Harry Barnaby, gunned down in Scarborough this week, was the latest in a long list of young black men slain in Toronto this summer. It's a trend authorities say they are trying to curb. Police say Mr. Barnaby, 20, was walking with two friends through a townhouse complex near Victoria Park Avenue and Finch Avenue East shortly before midnight Tuesday. They were approached by a group of men who chased the victim and shot him. When police arrived at the complex at 51 Morcambe Gate, they found Mr. Barnaby lying on the boulevard beside the road. "He was tended to by emergency personnel, however he was pronounced dead at the scene," said police spokesman Jim Muscatt. An autopsy is scheduled for this morning. Mr. Barnaby is one of nine young black men to be slain in the city since April. Last Wednesday, Gregory George Whittaker, 21, was shot in the head near a recreation centre in the Jane Street and Finch Avenue East area of North York. Known on the street as OJ, Mr. Whittaker was believed by police to be a member of a gang. Sydney Hemmans, 19, was found lying in a pool of his own blood on a sidewalk in Regent Park on July 5. He had been shot in the head and chest and died in hospital. Justin Sheppard, 19, a National Basketball Association hopeful and half-brother of NBA star Jamaal Magloire, was shot while crossing a footbridge near the Sherbourne subway station on the June 24 weekend. Mr. Sheppard was one of three young men murdered in the city that weekend. On June 24, Ansel George Adams, a 31-year-old father of 12 was shot to death at a Scarborough townhouse complex where a child's birthday party was under way. On the same day, Benny Kenneth Cloutier, 23, was found shot to death on a Toronto street corner. Police said they suspect his early-morning shooting is connected to a drug deal. Overall, homicides in the city are down from last year, said homicide Detective Tony Smith, but numbers are higher in some areas of the city. Nine of the city's 27 homicides this year have been in 51 Division, which encompasses both St. Jamestown and Regent Park On May 10, Cleamart Calvin (Mousy) Douglas, 36, was shot several times, in broad daylight, just metres away from 51 Division station. "It's a problem we need to address," said Superintendent Ron Taverner. "Certainly we are seeing a lot of homicides that are drug related, and the proliferation of illegal concerns us, but we are taking steps to curb that." Supt. Taverner said officers have been brought in from other divisions to increase patrols in "higher-crime areas." Police also said they are taking a "zero-tolerance" approach to street crime. But increased policing is not the only solution, he said. Police are sponsoring programs like "Let's Talk Guns," and "Kids Need Toys, Not Guns," designed to get away from young people and off the street. The first event in the Toys, Not Guns program is scheduled for today in Regent Park. Parents and children can exchange toy guns for non-violent toys or books. ------------------------------ End of Cdn-Firearms Digest V3 #925 ********************************** Submissions: mailto:cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Mailing List Commands: mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca Moderator's e-mail address: mailto:acardin33@home.com List owner: mailto:owner-cdn-firearms@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca FAQ list: http://www.magma.ca/~asd/cfd-faq1.html and http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Faq/cfd-faq1.html Web Site: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/homepage.html FTP Site: ftp://teapot.usask.ca/pub/cdn-firearms/ CFDigest Archives: http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/~ab133/ or put the next command in an e-mail message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca get cdn-firearms-digest v03.n802 end (802 is the digest issue number and 03 is the volume) To unsubscribe from _all_ the lists, put the next five lines in a message and mailto:majordomo@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca unsubscribe cdn-firearms-digest unsubscribe cdn-firearms-alert unsubscribe cdn-firearms-chat unsubscribe cdn-firearms end (To subscribe, use "subscribe" instead of "unsubscribe".) 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